California's Homeless Problem Caught On Tape! (Anaheim) (unemployment, retire, programs)

[skeddy]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Many homeless do not want help. They do not want shelter. And most importantly, do not want to comply with rules.

The weather in parts of California and Florida attract all sorts of people.

they do want help, they shake you down for money all the time.

[MLSFan]

Originally Posted by skeddy

they do want help, they shake you down for money all the time.

bunch of criminals, shaking innocent people down for cash

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

A big part of the homeless population is addicted to alcohol and drugs. Giving them prison time for repeat offenses would be their best chance to sober them up. The government could hire homeless and pay them minimum wage to clean the highways and parks. Instead, they enable them to continue their addictions and lifestyle. There are some homeless who truly have just had terrible luck and was born into the wrong life, so I don't hate the homeless, but that doesn't mean they are greater than the law.

Wow, do you really think that prison is a cure for addiction? You can get more drugs in prison than on the streets. And making alcohol is a fine art in prison. Not to mention, it costs $75,000 a year to keep a person in prison for one year in California, you could build a tent city with showers and porta potties for a few thousand a year per resident but you would rather see them in prison.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

There are shelters with available beds.

No shortage of homeless who refuse to relocate to shelters and Comply with rules.

I've worked with the homeless and most of them won't stay in shelters for a number of reasons.

• they can't bring their belongings inside
• no pets are allowed
• theft and assault are rampant
• most shelters are infested with fleas and bed bugs
• shelters provide no help during the day, they are usually open from 8pm to 6am and getting a bed involves standing in line for hours.

And the mentally ill who comprise a large percentage of the homeless population really suck at following rules because they are..mentally ill

[MLSFan]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

but you would rather see them in prison.

technically you wouldn't "see" them in prison, that's the point

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

Yeah, but you do need the desire to work and be productive - also need to be mentally stable, at least enough to show up at a certain time every day (and not cause problems socially). Sadly, there are very few chronically homeless people who would meet this criteria. And I specify CHRONICALLY homeless, as there is a big difference between people living under a bridge for years, and someone who's couch-surfing or sleeping in their car because of a temporary setback.

Coming from San Francisco and working in public services, I unfortunately know a LOT about the homeless population... and approximately 80% of them have untreated mental illnesses and/or substance abuse issues, which cause them to be unemployable (and lacking even the desire to change their situation). I have literally seen people fighting against those trying to help, because they are scared to make that change and/or get treatment. It's sad, but we can only do so much. Within the capacity of my work, all I can do is offer the resources and hope they avail themselves of them.

You are absolutely right and don't let the other "experts" here bother you. I worked in law enforcement for almost 3 decades and the homeless who are the most seriously impaired are the most visible, so your 80% figure is probably close to right. There are a lot of homeless who hide their homelessness by sleeping in cars or even pitching a tent in a friends yard and they are probably the easiest to help but the hardest to find. But the homeless you encounter on the street are just what you said, mostly mentally ill with the comorbid addiction.

They won't stay in shelters which actually is a rational choice given how bad most shelters are. You can't fix addiction or alcoholism by not giving someone a beer so good on you for realizing that. Their addiction issues are exacerbated by their homelessness and they generally fear officials because most of them understand that the helping hand might be the one that bites them and sends them to jail or to a psych ward for evaluation.

Most will not be able to be reunited with their families because of their level of impairment. The only thing that works is to give them a clean safe place to sleep, either a room or a tent in a 'tent city'. Surround them with services but don't force them to participate in them. Provide warm meals, toilets and showers and let them do what they want as long as they don't harm others.

It's been demonstrated in housing first programs such as the one in SLC as well as research done by Dr. Carl Hart that drug and alcohol use decrease when people are happy.

We also need to do a better job with helping people who can be helped, there is no excuse in a country this wealthy for a family to have to live in a car, that's disgusting.

[Delahanty]

While homelessness isn't unique to CA, their flaky courts (an those in other states) have impeded efforts to ameliorate the problem, at least in terms of these "encampments."

The 9th Circus Court, for example, found that L.A.'s law against sleeping in ones's vehicles "opened the door" to discriminating against the poor and homeless. So I'm sure it would be futile for Orange County to enact a similar law.

Then there's Sarasota, FL, where courts have put the kibosh on laws against sleeping outdoors, generally in front of public places (i.e., libraries) or in public parks. They've resorted to removing park benches, but the problem remains.

All of this said, even if such laws were allowed to be enforced, I'm not sure that police, through enforcement, should be the ones to address the issue of homelessness.

Oh, yeah...and memo to Google: What are YOU doing to address how the glut of high-paid tech workers in CA have contributed to the increased cost of housing there. Forget homes...landlords know they can charge boucoups bucks for rent, and they do. Then there are Google's own employees, making $150K annually, who are living in their RVs in these homeless encampments "to save money" One of them said that Google has a gym (and showers), cafes where he buys his meals, and on-site entertainment, so he doesn't need to "replicate those amenities" by paying for a place just to sleep.

"Homeless" isn't always homeless, and the real homeless don't have much of a chance.

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I've worked with the homeless and most of them won't stay in shelters for a number of reasons.

• they can't bring their belongings inside
• no pets are allowed
• theft and assault are rampant
• most shelters are infested with fleas and bed bugs
• shelters provide no help during the day, they are usually open from 8pm to 6am and getting a bed involves standing in line for hours.

And the mentally ill who comprise a large percentage of the homeless population really suck at following rules because they are..mentally ill

I have been an on again/ off again shelter volunteer for 15 years. Guests typically are either working poor or emotionally unstable. Drunks and druggies are not welcome.

An evening meal, a shower and bed are provided. There are some shelters that accommodate families, usually a mother and children who get priority in other shelter programs.

These shelters typically rely on temporarily repurposed space provided by area churches on a rotating basis and are staffed by volunteers. 7:00AM is check out. At that point a different group of volunteers arrive to wash all bedding and clean the entire area with bleach.

Local LE check in during the evening.

As it relates to the mentally ill......

The One Flew Ove... scenario is not too far off the mark in terms of historical public practices. Used to be way to easy to declare a person permanently mentally incompetent and institutionalize for life. State institutions were houses of horror. Abuse / neglect of patients was common. But heck, the whack jobs were out of sight and that's what is important, eh.

Federal and state funding dried up.

If this forum is indicative of a percentage of the population, it's obvious many do not want to pay a dime more in local, state or federal taxes as it relates to mental illness.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Delahanty

The 9th Circus Court, for example, found that L.A.'s law against sleeping in ones's vehicles "opened the door" to discriminating against the poor and homeless. So I'm sure it would be futile for Orange County to enact a similar law.

They can't prohibit sleeping in cars but they can regulate it which is exactly what they are doing: Homeless people face L.A. crackdown on living in cars

Originally Posted by Delahanty

Then there's Sarasota, FL, where courts have put the kibosh on laws against sleeping outdoors, generally in front of public places (i.e., libraries) or in public parks. They've resorted to removing park benches, but the problem remains.

I guess that didn't work out too well either, they were forced to change their law after they realized they couldn't defend it in court: ACLU, Sarasota settle high-profile homelessness lawsuit - News - Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Sarasota, FL And they have since changed their law to do exactly what California does, only arrest someone for sleeping outside if you have adequate shelter space for them and they refuse to accept it, so it's not just the 9th circus my friend, even conservative courts seem to realize that it can't be criminal to sleep outside if there is nowhere else for you to sleep

Originally Posted by Delahanty

Oh, yeah...and memo to Google: What are YOU doing to address how the glut of high-paid tech workers in CA have contributed to the increased cost of housing there. Forget homes...landlords know they can charge boucoups bucks for rent, and they do. Then there are Google's own employees, making $150K annually, who are living in their RVs in these homeless encampments "to save money" One of them said that Google has a gym (and showers), cafes where he buys his meals, and on-site entertainment, so he doesn't need to "replicate those amenities" by paying for a place just to sleep.

So you of all people support limiting wages or imposing rent control to solve the issue? I never expected to hear that from you...

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by MLSFan

technically you wouldn't "see" them in prison, that's the point

You nailed it.

It's all about making " them" invisible.