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Old 01-24-2018, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,010 posts, read 27,402,975 times
Reputation: 15932

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post

I'll say what I've said to many vets. I'm sorry that you got sent to the generals' games. I've had men break down & cry & thank me because that's exactly how they felt about it.

.
They did? You must have said something else too, for them to break down and cry and thank you for that.

Just saying!

I am not saying this to be mean spirited, I am just trying to understand the situation. I volunteer at a local VA hospital, I saw veterans getting into nasty fights with people who told them, "I am sorry you guys fought for oil companies." It just sounds incredibly insensitive. Many of these veterans are anti-war themselves.

It is not about what you say, it is about how you say it. I guess.

To me, Fonda was a coward (going after the guys who had no control over the war. If she was some kind of anti war hero, she should have started with the politicians who started the war), a drama queen, and a liar. I have no respects towards somebody like her.

This said, even though I am a conservative, I strongly support all activities that, both pro and against, that speak of people’s views and opinions. It is one of the peaceful ways we may reenergise our democracy.

In my most humble opinion,

Rallies tend to be centered around some simple concept. Desegregation. Unfair labor practices. No more stop and frisk. End the war.

Unfortunately, therein lies the problem: nothing worth protesting is simple.

Which brings me to my next point: rallies are generally good, individual protestors are generally bad.

Protestors suck because they tend to oversimplify, under-research or conspiracy theorize and tend not to follow up the protest with action that can actually affect change.

This is especially true with war protests.

War is immensely complicated issue. When protestors say that we went there for the oil or that all servicemembers are profiteers or murderers or war criminals or any other cockamamie notion, it cheapens the entire dialogue.

If you can't even have a substantive conversation about the issue, how can you even start to effect real change?

I fully support the right to peaceful assembly. Protest is an important part of our democratic process. I just wish that protestors would put as much effort into understanding the issue as they do painting signs and shouting.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 01-24-2018 at 07:54 AM..
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:39 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,292 posts, read 54,124,717 times
Reputation: 40596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I take it you forgiven Hitler.
You know, because it was such a "long time ago".
Hitler held power as did LBJ, McNamara, and Nixon, four SOBs who deserve no forgiveness. Fonda held no power.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:59 AM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,235,906 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Hitler held power as did LBJ, McNamara, and Nixon, four SOBs who deserve no forgiveness. Fonda held no power.


so did Stalin and Mao and the rest of the communists' SOBs. LBJ, McNamara, and Nixon didn't kill over 100 million people and they didn't enslave over 1 billion people, the communists did.

We have a problem when the left puts Hitler in the same sentence as LBJ and Nixon......the same for calling Trump Hitler and Stalin. They can't make up their minds, they are all over the map and kill any decent debate.

One more time, we fought the Nazis and the Empire of Japan with blood and treasure. We kicked them out of Europe and Asia. Were We supposed to give it to the communists on a silver platter after WW 2 because the left in our country didn't have a spine and didn't view communism as a world threat and most sided with them?


you don't need to have "power" to aid the enemy and be a traitor.........soldiers don't have power and the military have strong military laws in aiding the enemy in a time of war. The penalty is death.


if John Wayne did in WW 2 what Hanoi Jane did in Vietnam with the Nazis or Japan, you think he would have a Hollywood career or be celebrated when he returned to the country? .....we know the answer to that.

Last edited by Hellion1999; 01-24-2018 at 09:11 AM..
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,010 posts, read 27,402,975 times
Reputation: 15932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post


if John Wayne did in WW 2 what Hanoi Jane did in Vietnam with the Nazis or Japan, you think he would have a Hollywood career or be celebrated when he returned to the country? .....we know the answer to that.
lol Good point

Germany and Japan need to forever apologize, and everybody else = fragile little victim flowers.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:39 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,809 posts, read 34,505,004 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
They did? You must have said something else too, for them to break down and cry and thank you for that.

Just saying!

I am not saying this to be mean spirited, I am just trying to understand the situation. I volunteer at a local VA hospital, I saw veterans getting into nasty fights with people who told them, "I am sorry you guys fought for oil companies." It just sounds incredibly insensitive. Many of these veterans are anti-war themselves.

It is not about what you say, it is about how you say it. I guess.

To me, Fonda was a coward (going after the guys who had no control over the war. If she was some kind of anti war hero, she should have started with the politicians who started the war), a drama queen, and a liar. I have no respects towards somebody like her.

This said, even though I am a conservative, I strongly support all activities that, both pro and against, that speak of people’s views and opinions. It is one of the peaceful ways we may reenergise our democracy.

In my most humble opinion,

Rallies tend to be centered around some simple concept. Desegregation. Unfair labor practices. No more stop and frisk. End the war.

Unfortunately, therein lies the problem: nothing worth protesting is simple.

Which brings me to my next point: rallies are generally good, individual protestors are generally bad.

Protestors suck because they tend to oversimplify, under-research or conspiracy theorize and tend not to follow up the protest with action that can actually affect change.

This is especially true with war protests.

War is immensely complicated issue. When protestors say that we went there for the oil or that all servicemembers are profiteers or murderers or war criminals or any other cockamamie notion, it cheapens the entire dialogue.

If you can't even have a substantive conversation about the issue, how can you even start to effect real change?

I fully support the right to peaceful assembly. Protest is an important part of our democratic process. I just wish that protestors would put as much effort into understanding the issue as they do painting signs and shouting.
I listened to them first. I listen to them tell how, decades later they still had night terrors. They had nightmares of people bursting into flames from napalm. They told me of fears that they'd been exposed to agent orange. What can you say to that? I expressed what I felt, that the generals played games with their lives. Every one of the vets that I said it to cried & said, That's what I've been thinking for years. No one else has said that to me, thank you.

That said, I was talking to a different cousin, today. He was in the airforce during that same time period. He brought up this topic. He saw an article on line & every comment to the article was vitriolic with comments about Hanoi Jane. He asked me what was wrong with people that they would go off on her for something stupid that her husband conned her into doing decades ago. I told him it's the Trump people. He said he hadn't thought of that but he called NBC & left a message that they didn't need to think that he was going to waste his electricity on them as long as they had her (Ms Kelly) on their network.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:52 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,292 posts, read 54,124,717 times
Reputation: 40596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
so did Stalin and Mao and the rest of the communists' SOBs. LBJ, McNamara, and Nixon didn't kill over 100 million people and they didn't enslave over 1 billion people, the communists did.

We have a problem when the left puts Hitler in the same sentence as LBJ and Nixon......the same for calling Trump Hitler and Stalin. They can't make up their minds, they are all over the map and kill any decent debate.

One more time, we fought the Nazis and the Empire of Japan with blood and treasure. We kicked them out of Europe and Asia. Were We supposed to give it to the communists on a silver platter after WW 2 because the left in our country didn't have a spine and didn't view communism as a world threat and most sided with them?


you don't need to have "power" to aid the enemy and be a traitor.........soldiers don't have power and the military have strong military laws in aiding the enemy in a time of war. The penalty is death.


if John Wayne did in WW 2 what Hanoi Jane did in Vietnam with the Nazis or Japan, you think he would have a Hollywood career or be celebrated when he returned to the country? .....we know the answer to that.

No, but they're collectively responsible for killing over 58,000 Americans and altering the lives of a number we'll never know for not one good reason.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:11 PM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,235,906 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
No, but they're collectively responsible for killing over 58,000 Americans and altering the lives of a number we'll never know for not one good reason.


how so? So if FDR, Truman, and Churchill didn't fight WW 2, They could have saved millions of lives....just surrender to Hitler and let Japan take Europe and Asia and the Pacific islands and give them all of their demands to save your skin, right?

We lost 209,000 Allied soldiers on D-DAY alone....should we have left the Nazis keep France and parts of Europe so we can save those 209,000 people and millions more?......would you have made a deal with Hitler?



Who killed those 58,000 million American soldiers? that's like blaming the U.S. government everytime terrorists kill Americans. That's like blaming FDR for the Pearl Harbor attack because he placed an oil embargo on them and moved the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Hawaii to provoke them.....right?


We fought the Nazis and Japan with blood and treasure and kicked them out of Europe and Asia and you wanted to hand it over to the communists without a fight to save your skin?.....you must be a lefty, only care about yourself.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,745,048 times
Reputation: 35584
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbernard View Post
She pretty much didn't like that Jane said a question was inappropriate, so she decided to rant on something said many decades ago, regardless of the fact that Jane apologized for it.


Really classy.

Even though you didn't, veterans saw through that "apology." In fact, the last thing she's said about it is that veterans should "get over it."

Something Hanoi Jane apparently isn't doing, since she's been photographed often (as an "old lady") giving her one-fisted salute, and has even been out, proudly, in public sporting a shirt with her infamous mug shot on it--one of many Vietnam era "mementoes" she was selling and making a buck off of, BTW.

That dame's STILL got a lot of hormones. And NO class.

Attachment 194751

Last edited by Delahanty; 05-20-2019 at 07:29 PM..
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