U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-17-2018, 04:40 PM
 
11,124 posts, read 11,192,905 times
Reputation: 3418

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Oh my. No. There are a couple of problems here.

First, there is something you really must understand for all of this to make sense:

Most politicians (the unethical ones) are on the take from lobbyists on a personal level. When marijuana becomes legal federally, that very day they will personally lose all the perks they are currently reaping from big pharma and other lobbyists.

That is the real holdup in MJ legalization. Why does Big Pharma want so badly for it to remain illegal for as long as possible? Let me try to explain again, using quotes from the study this time.

The study looked at what the government was spending on Medicare Part D prescription costs before a state legalized and compared it to how it changed after legalization:

After Medical Marijuana Legalized Medicare Prescriptions Drop For Many Drugs



The interesting thing is that drugs that treat symptoms that MJ does not treat saw no drop in prescriptions after legalization:



Now please look at the actual numbers:



I never intended to imply that MJ is a replacement for opioid pain killers. But these numbers indicate that even though very few of the people who can benefit from medical MJ are actually receiving it, it could still have cost big pharma $470M that year if legalized nationwide. And that was 5 years ago!

I submit we are seeing only the tiniest tip of the iceberg, and big pharma knows it. Once the genie is fully out of the bottle, with it legal nationwide and all the treatment benefits widely known, big pharma will not sell billions of dollars worth of pills that they otherwise would have sold, every year, with absolutely nothing they can do about it.

I think that scares them so badly that they have conceded to the government to let them do what they want with regard to the current war on opioids. They won't raise a big stink about it, plus they'll keep the lobbyists supplied with plenty of blank checks, as long as they will keep MJ illegal for as long as they possibly can.

Please let me know what part of that doesn't make sense to you.
Okay, here's what doesn't make sense to me:

WHY WHY WHY are the FDA/DEA cutting opioid production and threatening doctors and pharmacies with losing their licenses if they prescribe/dispense opioids???????

You've told me why Big Pharma is cooperating--because they're afraid of MJ legalization on a nationwide level. But you've not touched at all on what the FDA/DEA gets out of cutting opioid production to the bone and threatening Dr's with prison. What's their payoff in all this rigmarole?

I've already listed the ways this defacto illegalization of opioids hurts America but I'll do it again:

1. it pushes innocent victims of pain onto the street to buy heroin laced with fentanyl. A good friend's son has already died from a fentanyl OD. He had severe osteoarthritis and his oxy was cut off abruptly by his physician who was scared stiff of getting a visit by the DEA. So the FDA/DEA promotes the very habit it claims to be trying to fight: the purchase of street drugs.

A little sidebar here: does anyone at all really comprehend the serious damage being done by this banning of opioid prescribing????? Does anyone comprehend that since these policies to curb opiate production/prescribing went into action a few years ago deaths from street fentanyl have skyrocketed and ER's are even more overwhelmed by street drug OD's than they were from OD's from prescription opiates??????

Quote:
The First Count of Fentanyl Deaths in 2016: Up 540% in Three Years
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...se-deaths.html

2. it pushes innocent pain victims to alcohol and NSAID's. Tens of thousands of these victims OD leading to hospitalizations and skyrocketing ER/ICU costs to treat them on the government's dime.

3. it pushes innocent pain victims to attempt suicide. 3 out of 4 fail and end up in the ER, then the ICU, then prohibitively expensive rehabilitation and then life-long disability again most of it on the government's dime.

So I see no logic in the FDA/DEA's policies being allowed to push healthcare costs up by several billion dollars per year to save 15,000 abusive kids from stealing Oxy out of their parents' cabinets. It makes no sense!!!! It all makes absolutely no sense!!!

So again I ask: WHY WHY WHY is the FDA/DEA doing this??????? What do they gain----beside pushing our health care costs further into the stratosphere?????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-17-2018, 04:52 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 875,374 times
Reputation: 2465
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
So again I ask: WHY WHY WHY is the FDA/DEA doing this??????? What do they gain----beside pushing our health care costs further into the stratosphere?????
You ask good questions.

But in case you haven't noticed, there has been a opioid epidemic that the public is clamoring for the government to fix.

What you are witnessing is their attempt at a fix. We both know it is causing all the damage you listed, but making it look like they are doing something about it, thus appeasing the public, is the main goal.

A good example of this is recently when the governor of WV called in the National Guard to help fix the problem. It stands no chance of helping, of course, but at least one poster said "I applaud this, at least he is trying to do something!".

So it is mostly for show and appeasement, which results ultimately in gaining votes come reelection time, regardless of the fact that this show has killed 1000's so far.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2018, 05:28 PM
 
11,124 posts, read 11,192,905 times
Reputation: 3418
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Im not surprised, I have asked about why the big pharma companies would sit idle when Govt regulates the hell out of some of their most popular and best selling opioid drugs!! It doesnt make any sense!

I truly believe the DEA is in bed with the drug cartels, everything they are doing ultimately benefits the cartels.
You know, rstevens, this is spooky. My PCP said this exact same thing when I asked what was going on. His opinion was that drug cartels have lost billions by the legalization of MJ in so many states so they hit on the scheme of making huge campaign donations to congressmen who are pushing a hard stance on all forms of opioid presence in America, whether heroin or legal prescriptions. Cartels reasoned that if they could get legal drugs like hyrdocodone and oxycodone banned, then the millions in pain who have been taking them for years would have no choice but to turn to heroin and this in turn would push costs of street drugs up and quadruple their client base. Then these people who get caught would get sent to prison, stocks in the private industrial complex would soar, the economy would soar and everybody wins---everybody except pain patients, but who gives a damn about them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
You ask good questions.

But in case you haven't noticed, there has been a opioid epidemic that the public is clamoring for the government to fix.

What you are witnessing is their attempt at a fix. We both know it is causing all the damage you listed, but making it look like they are doing something about it, thus appeasing the public, is the main goal.

A good example of this is recently when the governor of WV called in the National Guard to help fix the problem. It stands no chance of helping, of course, but at least one poster said "I applaud this, at least he is trying to do something!".

So it is mostly for show and appeasement, which results ultimately in gaining votes come reelection time, regardless of the fact that this show has killed 1000's so far.
This makes sense to me, Raddo. Thanks much. It's public pressure to make it look like the government is trying to do something about drug deaths. It's all photo-op stuff.

It chaps my hide when I see idiots like Lester Holt and his equally idiotic "One Nation Overdosed" reports, but he's not alone. These reporters are always reporting about heroin OD deaths but the slant of the report is always on prescription drugs being satanic and must be done away with. There's never any differentiating between the illegal and the legal; they're always lumped together. Never but never do they report the other side about the people hurt by these cutbacks. But that's showbiz!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2018, 06:45 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 875,374 times
Reputation: 2465
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Cartels reasoned that if they could get legal drugs like hyrdocodone and oxycodone banned, then the millions in pain who have been taking them for years would have no choice but to turn to heroin and this in turn would push costs of street drugs up and quadruple their client base.
I don't think there's one chance in a million that the drugs you mentioned will get banned outright. The government is going after pill mills, while promising to big pharma lobbyists they will keep MJ illegal.

As a previous poster mentioned, surgeons are still prescribing them without issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
But that's showbiz!
That's a good way to put it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2018, 07:50 PM
 
11,124 posts, read 11,192,905 times
Reputation: 3418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
I don't think there's one chance in a million that the drugs you mentioned will get banned outright. The government is going after pill mills, while promising to big pharma lobbyists they will keep MJ illegal.

As a previous poster mentioned, surgeons are still prescribing them without issues.


Raddo, I want you to read just two short paragraphs This one:

Quote:
Ann Jacobs, a patient advocate for the American Pain Foundation who cares for her chronically ill husband in Laramie, Wyo says "Doctors are so fearful of the DEA, so scared of losing their license that people go begging for pain relief."
and this:

Quote:
"Time and time again we get calls from people where their physician has refused to prescribe any more opioids," says Penney Cowan, founder and executive director of the American Chronic Pain Association. "This is real. We've had [patients] call where the doctor has fired them and won't even take their calls—and that's it, out in the cold."
Now if even 1 physician in a 1000 continues to prescribe then technically what you say is right--they are not illegal. But when only one in a 1000 is prescribing wouldn't you admit they might as well be illegal?

By the way, my wife had an oophorectomy (removal of ovaries) last year and her surgeon wouldn't give her opioids. She prescribed ibuprofen 600 mg. and said that's all my wife needed. Wait until you're in the ER screaming in pain for relief and they tell you they don't hand out opioids. Then you'll find out.

Quote:
Emergency Physicians Are Not Likely To Prescribe Opioids To Discharged Patients
A new report, titled "Opioid Prescribing in a Cross Section of US Emergency Departments," found that only 17% of patients discharged from the emergency department were given prescriptions for opioid pain relievers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cjarlot.../#16ceed2556ce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2018, 08:30 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 875,374 times
Reputation: 2465
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Raddo, I want you to read just two short paragraphs This one:



and this:



Now if even 1 physician in a 1000 continues to prescribe then technically what you say is right--they are not illegal. But when only one in a 1000 is prescribing wouldn't you admit they might as well be illegal?

By the way, my wife had an oophorectomy (removal of ovaries) last year and her surgeon wouldn't give her opioids. She prescribed ibuprofen 600 mg. and said that's all my wife needed. Wait until you're in the ER screaming in pain for relief and they tell you they don't hand out opioids. Then you'll find out.



A new report, titled "Opioid Prescribing in a Cross Section of US Emergency Departments," found that only 17% of patients discharged from the emergency department were given prescriptions for opioid pain relievers.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cjarlot.../#16ceed2556ce
Well, we're on the same side here. I hear what you are saying. Doctors have been feeling the effects of the DEA's heavy hand since 2012, which has magnified the problem. But 17% of all ER patients getting an opioid prescription? Given the wide variety of issues an ER sees, that percentage seems somewhere around normal to me.

My son-in-law is an ER doc in rural Missouri. I'll see what he has to say about this issue and then get back with you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2018, 10:51 PM
 
20,586 posts, read 8,765,570 times
Reputation: 7082
I don't ever want a dr to prescribe an opiod for me again. First it was knee surgery, then a C section. I didn't need that kind of pain killer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2018, 09:03 AM
 
11,124 posts, read 11,192,905 times
Reputation: 3418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Well, we're on the same side here. I hear what you are saying. Doctors have been feeling the effects of the DEA's heavy hand since 2012, which has magnified the problem. But 17% of all ER patients getting an opioid prescription? Given the wide variety of issues an ER sees, that percentage seems somewhere around normal to me.

My son-in-law is an ER doc in rural Missouri. I'll see what he has to say about this issue and then get back with you.
Love to hear what he has to say. The thread will probably be dead by then but you can "resurrect" it and prove to atheists that resurrection is real
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2018, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,447 posts, read 23,875,691 times
Reputation: 7264
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Yes, I get that they're not a perfect solution, but in many cases they're the only solution to helping a person live close to a normal life--the others being the ones I mentioned: NSAID's, alcohol and suicide. There have been calls by the CDC, pain specialists who are too afraid to prescribe painkillers, and ironically the DEA for other forms of treatment such as exercise, physical therapy, yoga, acupuncture, cognitive behavioral therapy, biofeedback, chiropractic, and relaxation training but good luck with these when pain levels are at a 7-10 on the pain scale. Without painkillers a large percentage of pain patients are confined to bed They do change brain chemistry but in an euqally large percentage of cases people stay on them for decades without deleterious effects.

I still want to know why the DEA is pushing to make opiates completely banned while giving a free pass to alcohol which kills more than 5 x's the number of people that prescription opiates do.
And yet they're not trying to ban SSRIs which are more deadly than opiates, and may be the most dangerous of all drugs. SSRIs are not even scheduled.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2018, 09:58 PM
 
11,124 posts, read 11,192,905 times
Reputation: 3418
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
And yet they're not trying to ban SSRIs which are more deadly than opiates, and may be the most dangerous of all drugs.
It only adds to the mystery. But I think rstevens is right. Money is involved in this somehow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:05 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top