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Old 02-16-2018, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,434,557 times
Reputation: 8061

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It's so easy to debunk hysteria arguments. Congrats to MN.
--------------
ST. PAUL, Minn. (WCCO) — Minnesota set a record last year for the number of gun background checks the FBI conducted in the state.

More people are carrying guns than ever before, but the crime rate remains relatively low. WCCO’s Pat Kessler is looking at the numbers, and giving them a Reality Check.

We took a hard look at the numbers, and found: Minnesota has a high rate of gun ownership, and a relatively low rate of violent crime.

Minnesota’s violent crime rate hit a 50-year low in 2016, according to the FBI.

Minnesota Sets Record For Gun Permit Background Checks « WCCO | CBS Minnesota
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,238 posts, read 6,435,487 times
Reputation: 8283
Honestly though I'm a libertarian who voted for Trump I would support a law requiring a 2 day safety course where live fire is required, the same type of courses people get to get enhanced conceal carry permits, in order to be able to possess and use a firearm once you hit age 18.

We issue licenses to drive. I know constitutionalists would argue with my position, but it seems like common sense to require a license for such tools.

With that said once the license is obtained, I would allow people to buy any and all forms of bullet weapons, suppressors, and actually enforce the existing gun laws so felons caught with guns go to prison for 5 years instead of being let out on signature bond where they commit more crimes.

Common sense? The left would argue with me saying they want them banned.. the right will tell me this is a slippery slope issue and that anyone who's 18 with no criminal record should be able to walk into any gun store and leave armed... the truth should be somewhere in the middle...
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,434,557 times
Reputation: 8061
I don't think it would impact our murder rate, but I would support mandatory safety training. I would trade training for the removal of licensing. Licensing has never prevented a crime or prevented an accidental shooting.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
8,911 posts, read 2,681,734 times
Reputation: 6829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
We took a hard look at the numbers, and found: Minnesota has a high rate of gun ownership, and a relatively low rate of violent crime...
When are people going to learn to discern the statistics they are reading? Sometimes I think it will never happen, at least to some people.

An increase in the # of background checks or an increase in the # of CC permits says little or nothing about the rate of gun ownership, and increases or decreases in gun ownership rates. Why? Because it could simply mean that a small # of people who already own guns decided to buy a bunch more, or have decided to get a carrying permit. Since this was 2016, maybe some conservatives decided to stockpile a bunch of guns because they thought Hilary was going to be elected, and they thought she might try to take away their guns. Or something like that.

The reality is that Minnesota is only a little above average in rates of gun ownership, ranked #17 with a rate of 36.7% of households owning guns.

BTW, Mississippi, Arkansas and Louisiana have very high gun ownership rates, but they also have violent crime rates through the roof. There's basically no relationship between gun ownership rates and violent crime rates.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,434,557 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
BTW, Mississippi, Arkansas and Louisiana have very high gun ownership rates, but they also have violent crime rates through the roof. There's basically no relationship between gun ownership rates and violent crime rates.
Which is exactly what I have been posting for years.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:06 PM
 
22,870 posts, read 12,203,928 times
Reputation: 7231
What's interesting reading about gun ownership is that -- according to polls/surveys/census -- the number of households that have guns are way down but the number of guns is way up (over all not just in Minnesota). That suggests that gun owners have way more guns.

To say Minnesota's crime rate has gone down and gun ownership up so the two are related doesn't make it true.

In general aren't crime rates down overall and yet fewer household own more guns than before.

What does that even mean...nothing.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Richmond
1,623 posts, read 825,241 times
Reputation: 1731
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
What's interesting reading about gun ownership is that -- according to polls/surveys/census -- the number of households that have guns are way down but the number of guns is way up (over all not just in Minnesota). That suggests that gun owners have way more guns.

To say Minnesota's crime rate has gone down and gun ownership up so the two are related doesn't make it true.

In general aren't crime rates down overall and yet fewer household own more guns than before.

What does that even mean...nothing.

One of the best indicators if gun ownership is actually on the rise is the increase in the number of NICS background checks, that is a number the FBI does keep track of.


I know for my self and every other gun owner that I know, would not answer a poll, either by phone or otherwise to a person that they did not know if they owned any guns or not. At best you would get none of your business one way or the other, most likely your would just get click, as the phone is hung up.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:16 PM
 
23,860 posts, read 11,864,057 times
Reputation: 10069
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
Honestly though I'm a libertarian who voted for Trump I would support a law requiring a 2 day safety course where live fire is required, the same type of courses people get to get enhanced conceal carry permits, in order to be able to possess and use a firearm once you hit age 18.

We issue licenses to drive. I know constitutionalists would argue with my position, but it seems like common sense to require a license for such tools.

With that said once the license is obtained, I would allow people to buy any and all forms of bullet weapons, suppressors, and actually enforce the existing gun laws so felons caught with guns go to prison for 5 years instead of being let out on signature bond where they commit more crimes.

Common sense? The left would argue with me saying they want them banned.. the right will tell me this is a slippery slope issue and that anyone who's 18 with no criminal record should be able to walk into any gun store and leave armed... the truth should be somewhere in the middle...
Once again, the term common sense and guns and liberals are mutually exclusive.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:18 PM
 
22,870 posts, read 12,203,928 times
Reputation: 7231
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigby06 View Post
One of the best indicators if gun ownership is actually on the rise is the increase in the number of NICS background checks, that is a number the FBI does keep track of.


I know for my self and every other gun owner that I know, would not answer a poll, either by phone or otherwise to a person that they did not know if they owned any guns or not. At best you would get none of your business one way or the other, most likely your would just get click, as the phone is hung up.
Yes -- but That would be consistent over time.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:19 PM
 
2,701 posts, read 1,108,551 times
Reputation: 2544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
It's so easy to debunk hysteria arguments. Congrats to MN.
--------------
ST. PAUL, Minn. (WCCO) — Minnesota set a record last year for the number of gun background checks the FBI conducted in the state.

More people are carrying guns than ever before, but the crime rate remains relatively low. WCCO’s Pat Kessler is looking at the numbers, and giving them a Reality Check.

We took a hard look at the numbers, and found: Minnesota has a high rate of gun ownership, and a relatively low rate of violent crime.

Minnesota’s violent crime rate hit a 50-year low in 2016, according to the FBI.

Minnesota Sets Record For Gun Permit Background Checks « WCCO | CBS Minnesota
Yet - you haven't even presented any evidence of a causal relationship.
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