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I was also born in the early 60's. Seeing my mother a dependent SAHM under the rule of my father (don't get me wrong, my father was a decent man and not abusive) having to squirrel away money out of the grocery money for her smokes or anything extra. Seeing her get up every morning to fix his breakfast and pack his lunch even if she had been up all night with a crying baby or was blowing chunks and having to defer to him on every decision made me terrified of being dependent on anyone.
Dad was in charge of everything from what we watched on TV to what we did for entertainment because he earned the money. It was his TV, his car, his money, his decision and he made sure we all knew it.
Yep, I was born in 60 and yep, dad ruled the roost. I observed a lot with my parents and other people and knew early that I wasn't going to be dependent and ruled over like that. Dad wasn't bad but others, I saw everything from abusive to controlling to womanizing and to having to "ask for money" and having to justify it like that, no thanks.
Womanizers but the wife didn't have a choice but to stay to raise the kids. My aunt was married to an abuser, a drinker who she divorced when divorcing was a no-no. She had to stay in an apartment, in those days a woman couldn't get a mortgage and worked as a waitress, in those days women weren't educated. Of course her ex didn't pay child support so she worked and raised their son on her own.
OP calls those days the good days? pfft! no thanks
Yeah, because it makes much more sense for them to script the fact that the women completely failed then because when it comes to creating, innovating, designing, and building men are much more inherently attuned to such things.
It's really funny how much like the post I quoted women really like to believe in the myth that men need women more than women need men, yet it's as obvious as day it's easily the other way around.
Sure women have it easy today, but it is all due to all the innovations in technology, medicine, etc. that men invented and maintain.
Pretty sure women like having oil to drive. Imagine if all the men on the oil rigs stopped tomorrow, women sure wouldn't step up and start doing it.
Sure women love having access to all the nice things as plumbing. Pretty sure women sure wouldn't take over when it comes to going down into the sewers cleaning, repairing, creating new sewer systems etc.
Women certainly love all the new technology that comes out. You can say goodbye to that ever changing or innovating at all.
Sure women love to benefit from all the houses, buildings and A/C. All that would be drastically toned down to caveman levels if men weren't involved.
I know the reply will be "But...But...Women give birth to children!" yeah, and that's great, but were it not for all the advances in medicine due to men women and children would revert back to dying at a large scale from diseases, child birth etc.
Oh, I don't know. I think most men who ever get radiation treatment for cancer are pretty grateful to Madame Curie. There are also a lot of other medical and scientific discoveries and developments that were made by women - they didn't all live exclusively in the kitchen and the nursery.
The OP was pointing out there are very high stress levels for time crunched women now that result in obesity and other health problems. It isn't men vs. women. It is where the culture and economy are right now.
Yes women have always worked in some capacity, in the fifties many women became home makers as there was an emphasis on family, dad was expected to provide for a family. It isn't good or bad, it's how it was after the war. Some women preferred it and the economy allowed for it for the first time for many people. A lot of people had a grandma who worked out of necessity and a mom who didn't have to work. It isn't evil as many are making it out.
Posters are telling stories of single parents and negative circumstances but there were as many positive stories of happy intact one earner families from that time period and beyond.
It is clear that no one wants their daughter to be a SAHM. They can say they support "choice" but in the end they don't encourage women to stay home with their kids. Therefore they do not promote it and are not for it.
I know a couple that when the husband retired he'd sit in his lazy boy chair all the time. He loved saying "I'm retired" as his wife slaved in the kitchen, cleaning the house, washing the clothes, running errands, on and on .... He never pitched in. He retired, she never got to retire. She passed
My question is are parents raising their kids with the same mentality. My neighbor is. The girls help around the house, the son works harder trying to get out of helping than it would take him to just pitch in and help, worse, he gets away with it.
I agree with this. If it were up to me, I would not want my daughter to be a SAHM. I would prefer for her to work outside the home so that she can be financially independent. But if she and her future husband decided that they wanted her to be a SAHM and could afford it, I would be completely supportive. I would also suggest that they have a hefty life and disability policy on him so that if something happened, she would not be left without resources.
Of course. There are plenty of common sense things to do to insure fairness and security in a one income family.
It's the opposite. Morals have nothing to do with it. Most of the responses here are negative and I am defending the choice but so many are pointing out nothing but negatives. The current culture trends heavily toward two parent working households. That is where the pressure lies. People are saying choice after writing horror stories and warnings to never be dependent on a man.
Well the question was why do feminist think the traditional housewife of the 1050's and 1960's was a bad thing. Although I think we need to throw out the word feminist because its not feminists its some people.
So posters are giving their opinion and experiences as to why it could be a bad thing.
It could also be a good thing for women who wanted this life and were in very happy marriages to men who were generous, caring and considered their wife on equal footing.
There are definitely positives to having a SAHP, I think we can all agree on that but this thread wasn't about the pros and cons of having a SAHP.
It's the opposite. Morals have nothing to do with it. Most of the responses here are negative and I am defending the choice but so many are pointing out nothing but negatives. The current culture trends heavily toward two parent working households. That is where the pressure lies. People are saying choice after writing horror stories and warnings to never be dependent on a man.
You do get that the 2 working parent trend is due to economics and not people being against staying at home? Most people NEED 2 incomes to pay the bills, save for retirement, save for college for their kids and maybe even take a vacation every couple years. You act like everything is the same as it was in the 50s and the only reason fewer women are staying home is your perceived "war" on stay at home moms. Nope. Not even close.
You do get that the 2 working parent trend is due to economics and not people being against staying at home? Most people NEED 2 incomes to pay the bills, save for retirement, save for college for their kids and maybe even take a vacation every couple years. You act like everything is the same as it was in the 50s and the only reason fewer women are staying home is your perceived "war" on stay at home moms. Nope. Not even close.
It started off as women wanting more fulfillment than being a home maker, not primarily as a economics issue. Now it is a lot more difficult economically to have a one income family but female independence is also ingrained.
Clearly there is some stigma in modern America for an adult woman being a "dependent" on a man and giving up time in a career they can never get back, particularly for women with college degrees. They often have to pay back student loans anyway, so they would have to work unless their husband was wealthy enough to pay that as well as everything else.
You are correct, it is tougher than ever economically for women to stay home with their kids. That is not much of a choice then, but I don't see it being addressed as a big problem in society. Just work more, pay more, work more pay more.
I don't think that is clear at all. I do not have daughters but I would support their choice. I would also make sure they understood the risk of staying out of the workforce too long and not having some education, job training, or experience to fall back on.
Today we see more mothers getting an education and some work experience before marriage and children then deciding to take a few years off until their children are school age or at least pre K and then going back to work at least part time. In the 50's and 60's most dropped out of the workforce for 20+ years or forever. There is a big difference there.
No I would not promote being a SAHP for ever. I would not promote my son's having a SAHM forever or being a SAHD forever. But in the end its their choice to make.
Men have risk in this as well. The posters talking about getting 50%-80% of earnings.
Imagine how men feel. Working that stressful, soul sucking job for 25 years then giving your ex half of your paycheck before taxes each week until you die because they cooked for you and kept your house clean and took care of the kids so you could spend 8+ hours a day at your stressful, soul sucking job so you could pay for that house for them to live in and that food for them to eat and all their expenses.
All I'm saying is that marriage is a partnership. People should make a commitment to the marriage and each other and the family.
It is hard on men. My dh worked for a bunch he couldn't stand for years until we got the kids through college. Then he continued working for healthcare, until he retired. Divorce was out of the question simple because it is a stupid way to resolve a problem. If a couple has kids they will be tied together forever so they may as well figure out how to resolve their problems.
I will always remember that line in 'Hair' where the mom tells the kids do whatever you want, be whatever you want to be, just don't hurt anybody. Seems to me like we got a ****load of people who go around hurting anybody who disagrees with them. They are committed to nothing but themselves. If either decided to leave their partner and kids, they should at least be responsible enough to provide for them.
If they are old enough to multiply, they should be old enough to add.
IMO, our culture teaches females they must be married to be complete. So they hook up with the first fool who shows them attention.
I would have to say about 40% of my neighborhood has stay at home moms, and they absolutely love it. Growing up I always wanted to be the provider and have my future wife at home with the kids too but I ended up marrying the career driven wife that makes more money than I do. I would have no problem staying at home and taking that role if I had the opportunity. Most people hate going to the office everyday; my question is, if you don't have to, why would you want to? Just because one spouse works, does not mean that they are any less important.
I feel the reason the prices of things that were once affordable on one income but are no longer is due to the fact there are so many dual incomes homes now. If there are 2 incomes why not increase the cost of housing, autos, etc..
I dont get the whole feminist thing and I wonder if its because I am a guy but then my wife doesn't get them either.
It started off as women wanting more fulfillment than being a home maker, not primarily as a economics issue. Now it is a lot more difficult economically to have a one income family but female independence is also ingrained.
Clearly there is some stigma in modern America for an adult woman being a "dependent" on a man and giving up time in a career they can never get back, particularly for women with college degrees. They often have to pay back student loans anyway, so they would have to work unless their husband was wealthy enough to pay that as well as everything else.
You are correct, it is tougher than ever economically for women to stay home with their kids. That is not much of a choice then, but I don't see it being addressed as a big problem in society. Just work more, pay more, work more pay more.
Nope, don't see that at all. I know a lot of women who have never worked outside the home. Even once their kids were grown and gone. The choice to stay at home was made by them and their spouses together. All these women are college educated and quite a few have terminal degrees. They are smart, accomplished women who while they have not worked for a paycheck have made incredible contributions to not just their families but their communities as well. No stigma at all.
Why is this any different than non working women in the 50s? Because in that era few women had advanced educations. And few men were willing to ALLOW their wives to work. They believed a working wife reflected poorly on their ability to support a family and on their masculinity (teeny weeny syndrome). Society, especially in the form of other men, heavily stigmatized those men. Women for the most part had no CHOICE in the matter. If they wanted to marry and have a family putting themselves in a position of letting their husbands decide what they could and could not do was the price they paid.
In 2018 women can marry or not, have kids or not, work or not and make choices for themselves instead of having the choices made for them. If that's what you mean by "female independence", then I'm all for it.
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