Manafort may be facing more charges (compare, rating, government, FBI)

[Goodnight]

Interesting that Van Der Zwall wouldn’t sign a cooperation agreement, they can always get what want anyway.

[RosieSD]

Originally Posted by eddie gein

All fake news. And even if it were true, Manafort barely knew Trump. They passed each other in the hallway once............Maybe.

No, no. Manafort was just another coffee boy. The campaign needed LOTS of coffee.

[pbmaise]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

Interesting that Van Der Zwall wouldn’t sign a cooperation agreement, they can always get what want anyway.

I was just combing the NYT article:

"He also admitted that he deleted records of email exchanges that prosecutors had sought. "

Van Der Zwaan's exchanges were with Gates.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/2...r.html?referer

Let's look in depth:

#1 As I wrote before, there are two sides to emails and likely Gates deleted his side.

#2 The whitewashing of the Ukrainian President occured well before the election, and Mueller's commission isn't charged with looking into that. Therefore, dollars to donuts the emails occured during the campaign. Further confirmation of this time span is the fact the call van Der Zwaan deleted was also during the campaign.

#3 The big lie Gates told the FBI was that his call to vDZ was about that whitewashing event. When Mueller presented evidence to Gates of their conversation, #GatesFlipped, and as much as Trump loves to shout about wire tapping, he has been 100% mute about this wire tap.

#4 Trump can't complain about the wire tap since #vanDerZwaan was a foreign citizen on foreign soil. Further, Gates initiated the call.

#5 Now why would #Mueller be seeking the emails from vDZ. Wouldn't it been easier to just ask #RickGates? Yes. However, consider Gates spoke in Russian and used term "mutual acquaintance" since he didn't want to say the name of #PersonA out loud.

It is likely Gates didn't use the server at campaign HQ. Likely he also lied that emails existed and then destroyed them.

#6 These must be the new criminal charges against Gates.

#7 Gates and #Manafort are a team. So likely Manafort also was copied on the emails, knew of the emails, and lied to Mueller too. Hence, the new charges are against him too.

#8 I think the possibility is real that Manafort indeed was asking for bribes and offering cabinet positions in return. Manafort personally needed the money and he and Gates may very well have been searching for other people willing to give cash.

#9 I have long thought the DeVos family was a logical one to hit up for cash. They are billionaires, has an agenda, and made illegal campaign contributions before. Since they are my neighbors, perhaps it isn't polite to suspect them, however, I still do.

#10 DeVos however, isn't Ukrainian, so is not a candidate to be #PersonA who is most likely #Firtash.

#11 Were Gates and Manafort asking van Der Zwaan for cash? Perhaps, they promised him a cabinet position too.

I am reminded of the movie https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...ers_(1967_film)

You know the song. Spring time for Hitler in Germany.

Maybe Manafort and Gates asked 40 people to give cash under the table and promised each a cabinet position. Maybe like in The Producers they didn't expect to win so never thought they had to deliver.

I think Mueller should go through all of Trump's cabinet and ask them under oath. Seems Trump hired a bunch of unqualified people, maybe they all gave cash to get their jobs.

Donations above the table is legal. Under the table or ultimately from Daddy who is foreign Not.

[vacoder]

I definitely believe Manafort engaged in influence peddling. Remember, that soon after he joined the campaign the campaign suddenly changed its stance on Crimeaq to be be pro-Russian. Questioned about this at the time Manafort and the campaign said the decision was RNC. RNC denied this.

Kind of an odd thing to change when you think about it. Trump's base wouldn't care. It was not an issue that would get Trump votes. Logically, it was a sign from Manafort to his benefactors that he could make things happen.

[Oklazona Bound]

Originally Posted by greywar

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...al-case-419685

It appears that new charges in the Manafort case may have been filed. Im guessing Gates has flipped and we are seeing the first results of that information.

Mueller seems to be accelerating the pace as of late

And exactly what does this have to do with Trump / Russia collusion? Its been established that Manafort is dirty and scum. However his time working for the Trump campaign apparently was the one time he was squeaky clean.

I am fine with him serving prison time for whatever he has done but is this enough? As long as we nail someone who used to work for the Trump campaign for something they did before they worked for the Trump campaign. Mission accomplished?

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by jackwinkelman

And exactly what does this have to do with Trump / Russia collusion? Its been established that Manafort is dirty and scum. However his time working for the Trump campaign apparently was the one time he was squeaky clean.

I am fine with him serving prison time for whatever he has done but is this enough? As long as we nail someone who used to work for the Trump campaign for something they did before they worked for the Trump campaign. Mission accomplished?

That may be the worst time of them all. Manafort did not accept a salary. He was planning to be paid by "other entities" because of his connections. One of the things they are investigating now is whether Manafort tried to sell a cabinet position to a banker during that time.

[Oklazona Bound]

Originally Posted by vacoder

I definitely believe Manafort engaged in influence peddling. Remember, that soon after he joined the campaign the campaign suddenly changed its stance on Crimeaq to be be pro-Russian. Questioned about this at the time Manafort and the campaign said the decision was RNC. RNC denied this.

Kind of an odd thing to change when you think about it. Trump's base wouldn't care. It was not an issue that would get Trump votes. Logically, it was a sign from Manafort to his benefactors that he could make things happen.

Manafort was on an island. He had huge debts to repay his benefactors as you call them. So sure he probably pushed the Trump campaign to be softer on Russia. But if they had no idea what Manafort was up to and assumed he was looking out for the best interest of the campaign which is what he was suppose to be doing what did the Trump campaign do wrong?

[vacoder]

Originally Posted by jackwinkelman

Manafort was on an island. He had huge debts to repay his benefactors as you call them. So sure he probably pushed the Trump campaign to be softer on Russia. But if they had no idea what Manafort was up to and assumed he was looking out for the best interest of the campaign which is what he was suppose to be doing what did the Trump campaign do wrong?

In that case nothing other than bad vetting. But that is why you have investigations.

[Oklazona Bound]

Originally Posted by cuebald

That may be the worst time of them all. Manafort did not accept a salary. He was planning to be paid by "other entities" because of his connections. One of the things they are investigating now is whether Manafort tried to sell a cabinet position to a banker during that time.

I agree Manaford is screwed. He was desperate to save face with his Russian debtors. But again did Manafort conspire with the Trump campaign to benefit Russia? Or was he playing Russia on one side and the Trump Campaign on the other. Both telling them whatever they wanted to hear. If its the latter then proving collusion will be impossible at least in the case of Manafort.

What I believe with all of this and I am not a Trump supporter. During the campaign Roger Stone has the ear of Trump. Stone used to be in business with Manafort. He pushes Manafort on Trump. Manafort will work for free which Trump likes. Stone is not aware of Manafort's financial situation. So Trump brings Manfort aboard and at some point decided Manafort is not the one for the job and fires him.

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by jackwinkelman

I agree Manaford is screwed. He was desperate to save face with his Russian debtors. But again did Manafort conspire with the Trump campaign to benefit Russia? Or was he playing Russia on one side and the Trump Campaign on the other. Both telling them whatever they wanted to hear. If its the latter then proving collusion will be impossible at least in the case of Manafort.

The $64,000 question.

I think one reason Manafort hasn't cut a plea deal is that he knows a little too much about Russia, and if he talks to stay free, the results he realizes might make fifty years in prison look pretty good.