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Old 02-26-2018, 09:56 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,629,829 times
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oh gee cops going into a hostage situation not knowing who the perp is, and seeing a guy with a gun, and telling the guy to drop the gun, and the guy REFUSES TO DROP THE GUN and as a result gets shot.

as i have said MANY MANY TIMES you have to cooperate with the cops and DONT ARGUE with them especially in a highly charged situation. if a cop tells you to drop the gun, you drop the damned gun.

remember a few things in situations like these;

1: cops are human being, they make mistakes

2: the cops are coming into a situation of which they have little knowledge of, they dont know who is a perp, and who is an innocent bystabder holding the perps gun

3: they need to take control of the situation as soon as possible upon arriving to try and keep everyone as safe as possible, its in their training.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:00 AM
 
28,564 posts, read 18,570,253 times
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I've been told by a friend who is a retired police officer:


There is no good way to advise a police officer verbally that you are armed. You never know what his state of mind is, but there is a good chance that any verbal statement of "Gun" or "Armed" or "Firearm" may trigger someone who is for any reason on edge. And your own voice might sound more strained than you intend. There just isn't a safe way to say it aloud.


Because Texas requires concealed firearm licensees to advise the police they are armed, his advice was to hand over the license along with driver's license and registration, put your hands on the wheel, and say nothing.


Let the police officer see and CHL and realize intellectually that you must be armed. At that point, your hands are on the wheel and you have no need to reach for anything else. Then let him take the ball.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:03 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,612 posts, read 7,454,055 times
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The Reality Of Being Armed In A Hot Situation


.... is better than the reality of being UNARMED with a demented shooter killing people a few feet away.

The idea of trained, law-abiding people being on the scene during a mass shooting, is that the incident is over long before the 5 minutes it takes police to arrive. And a lot fewer people are dead.

At which time you lay your gun on the floor, step away from it, and stand there with your hands up to greet the police, showing them you are no threat to them or anyone else.

Looks like somebody forgot that. Oops.

Actually the main idea behind ordinary people being allowed to be armed, is that half the time there is no incident in the first place. Because the potential perp decided that, since there is likely somebody armed there that he can't identify and take out early, convinces him not to shoot the place up in the first place. Because he knows he can't rack up the huge body count he wants before the police show up late and finally kill or arrest him. So he never goes there in the first place.

Presto, half the mass shootings never happen at all. A big reduction in crime, without a shot being fired.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:05 AM
 
7,520 posts, read 2,778,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I've been told by a friend who is a retired police officer:


There is no good way to advise a police officer verbally that you are armed. You never know what his state of mind is, but there is a good chance that any verbal statement of "Gun" or "Armed" or "Firearm" may trigger someone who is for any reason on edge. And your own voice might sound more strained than you intend. There just isn't a safe way to say it aloud.


Because Texas requires concealed firearm licensees to advise the police they are armed, his advice was to hand over the license along with driver's license and registration, put your hands on the wheel, and say nothing.


Let the police officer see and CHL and realize intellectually that you must be armed. At that point, your hands are on the wheel and you have no need to reach for anything else. Then let him take the ball.
A traffic stop is different than a hostage situation. Your hands should be empty and in the air away from your body when interacting with LE in this particular case. He made the mistake of not listening.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:11 AM
 
28,564 posts, read 18,570,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwood66 View Post
A traffic stop is different than a hostage situation. Your hands should be empty and in the air away from your body when interacting with LE in this particular case. He made the mistake of not listening.
I had stated that earlier.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Gaston, South Carolina
15,704 posts, read 9,412,325 times
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Hey, if police tell you to put the gun down, you put the gun down! He was a moron.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:14 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 1,681,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Yeah we get it, you want things to stay the same and schools to be shooting galleries.

No, the reality is, untrained armed people are simply not effective in crisis situations, been proven time and time again. Police train constantly to sharpen their skills and reactions, teachers and other non LE people will freeze more often than not.


I have guns, but honestly would have trouble putting a bullet into someone. We all say we could, but I am not so sure.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:19 AM
 
28,564 posts, read 18,570,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
No, the reality is, untrained armed people are simply not effective in crisis situations, been proven time and time again. Police train constantly to sharpen their skills and reactions, teachers and other non LE people will freeze more often than not.


I have guns, but honestly would have trouble putting a bullet into someone. We all say we could, but I am not so sure.
This situation didn't have anything to do with all that.
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Gaston, South Carolina
15,704 posts, read 9,412,325 times
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I'm still looking for more links. The one in the OP was pretty biased. It was at a chapel with security.

Quote:
Taylor said Faith City’s head of security noticed Jones, a regular guest, leave chapel service after going through security protocols and followed to investigate.

Taylor said the security official observed Jones returning with a gun and immediately alerted chapel service attendees to evacuate before the gunman was confronted.

“Members of the security team took the gunman down and one of our students was able to wrestle the gun away,” she said.
The student seems to have helped the situation. Not sure why he was still holding the gun with secuity there or why security didn't take it. Not sure if security was armed or unarmed. This does not sound like a good guy with a guy situation though. It sounds like a guy who should have put the gun down when told to put the gun down. It sounds like paid security mostly handled it.

Y'all can argue the merits of the case among yourself though.

http://amarillo.com/local-news/news/...ho-d-taken-gun
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Old 02-26-2018, 10:27 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,629,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WMak70 View Post
No, the reality is, untrained armed people are simply not effective in crisis situations, been proven time and time again. Police train constantly to sharpen their skills and reactions, teachers and other non LE people will freeze more often than not.


I have guns, but honestly would have trouble putting a bullet into someone. We all say we could, but I am not so sure.
and this is the reason why any teacher that would choose to be armed, should go through a fair amount of training, including the shoot/dont shoot training that the cops go through.

if you are going to carry concealed, you not only need a gun, but you also need to learn to think with a clear head.
one of my favorite movie line is from the movie barbarosa when willie nelson tells gary busey how to shoot a gun. he says you stand with your feet planted until you have done all the shooting you are going to do, nothing makes a man more nervous than seeing someone standing still when they should be running like a scalded a$$ed ape.
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