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Old 03-04-2018, 05:47 PM
 
45,336 posts, read 17,992,440 times
Reputation: 18978

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post


So what exactly is unfair trading with a country that buys more from you than you do from them?? Shouldn't Trump be rewarding Canada for being part of the few that actually doesn't have imbalances with you. It is like your friend gives you a Kit Kat and you punch them in the face in return....
Answers to your questions:
  • Unfair Trade of Steel & Aluminum = Steel produced by processes and subsidies that would be illegal in the USA and where there are barriers to the same steel produced in the USA being sold there. (same for AL)
  • Canada Rewards = Canada gets a 1/2 Trillion dollar/year trading partner and enjoys being a part of the USA Defense umbrella. This includes the USA deep water Navy which protects Canada's shipping to all other countries. Canadians get to drive to the SE in March to escape the the very cold weather there too. It's a YUGE benefit of having such a rewarding relationship with the USA. Don't you agree?
Can-Am Days Festival
I'm sure if Canada wants it, they send a truckload of American made Kit Kats to Ottawa.

 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:00 PM
 
10,811 posts, read 4,038,288 times
Reputation: 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Yeah, well youíd be appalled at me no matter what for some reason or another. So whatever.
I am appalled at your reasoning on this, but I agree with your final conclusion. Being appalled at your reasoning is not the same thing as being appalled by you. Every disagreement between two people does not have to be personal. And it wasn't in this case, at least not as far as I was concerned.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:24 PM
 
50,745 posts, read 26,763,385 times
Reputation: 15886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
I am appalled at your reasoning on this, but I agree with your final conclusion. Being appalled at your reasoning is not the same thing as being appalled by you. Every disagreement between two people does not have to be personal. And it wasn't in this case, at least not as far as I was concerned.
LMAO...yeah, well I beg to differ.

I mean, appalled is a pretty strong sentiment. If we agree on the issue, then the reasoning canít be all that far apart. It ainít like supporting a tariff has reasoning with the complexity of Quantum Physics. Itís just a tariff for crying out loud.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:36 PM
 
18,301 posts, read 10,390,605 times
Reputation: 13370
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Answers to your questions:
  • Unfair Trade of Steel & Aluminum = Steel produced by processes and subsidies that would be illegal in the USA and where there are barriers to the same steel produced in the USA being sold there. (same for AL)
  • Canada Rewards = Canada gets a 1/2 Trillion dollar/year trading partner and enjoys being a part of the USA Defense umbrella. This includes the USA deep water Navy which protects Canada's shipping to all other countries. Canadians get to drive to the SE in March to escape the the very cold weather there too. It's a YUGE benefit of having such a rewarding relationship with the USA. Don't you agree?
Can-Am Days Festival
I'm sure if Canada wants it, they send a truckload of American made Kit Kats to Ottawa.
Fact .... not kittycrap:

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

Last edited by BruSan; 03-04-2018 at 06:52 PM..
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:37 PM
 
3,099 posts, read 826,682 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Answers to your questions:
  • Unfair Trade of Steel & Aluminum = Steel produced by processes and subsidies that would be illegal in the USA and where there are barriers to the same steel produced in the USA being sold there. (same for AL)
  • Canada Rewards = Canada gets a 1/2 Trillion dollar/year trading partner and enjoys being a part of the USA Defense umbrella. This includes the USA deep water Navy which protects Canada's shipping to all other countries. Canadians get to drive to the SE in March to escape the the very cold weather there too. It's a YUGE benefit of having such a rewarding relationship with the USA. Don't you agree?
Can-Am Days Festival
I'm sure if Canada wants it, they send a truckload of American made Kit Kats to Ottawa.
I'm afraid to ask where you got your definition of "unfair" trade and how that connects up to what Trump is doing? According to the WH, the proposed tariffs are for "national security and economic security” but it sure doesn't sound like there are any defensible allegations of "unfair" trade. If there were, plenty of trade provisions in place that would lead to compensatory tariffs - WITHOUT all this talk of a trade war.

It SOUNDS like Trump is threatening unilateral action against "fairly" traded imports - like what he did for solar panels? For the solar panel action, the US is expected in theory to balance out its new tariffs on imported solar panels by allowing the foreign countries to impose tariffs of the same value on US exports.

If we refuse then foreign countries can retaliate - but not for 3 years providing a nice little window for the domestic industry. Now I suppose it's possible to pull this on a small industry or once or twice and the world will blink. Clearly, though, no country is going to wait 3 years before retaliating on yet another set of sanctions with the threat of more to come.

And so off the rule-map we plunge. Any violation of US obligations under the WTO puts us at odds with the ENTIRE international trading community. Hence, the term "trade war."

Whatever happened to Trump negotiating legitimate trade DEALS as opposed to going rogue? He sure gave up fast.

Worse, yet, we HAVE real problems - that a trade war will not help even though Trump tweets he can win.

A trade war is quick and easy for HIM (he does have the executive power, without having to work with ANYONE) and provides click-bait.

Last edited by EveryLady; 03-04-2018 at 06:47 PM..
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
29,365 posts, read 39,793,769 times
Reputation: 18807
Liberals, unions and Democrats are gaga over Trump's proposed tariff. Maybe Trump is in the wrong party.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/trum...nd-unions.html
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:50 PM
 
18,301 posts, read 10,390,605 times
Reputation: 13370
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
I'm afraid to ask where you got your definition of "unfair" trade and how that connects up to what Trump is doing? According to the WH, the proposed tariffs are for "national security and economic securityĒ but it sure doesn't sound like there are any defensible allegations of "unfair" trade. If there were, plenty of trade provisions in place that would lead to compensatory tariffs - WITHOUT all this talk of a trade war.

It SOUNDS like Trump is threatening unilateral action against "fairly" traded imports - like what he did for solar panels? For the solar panel action, the US is expected in theory to balance out its new tariffs on imported solar panels by allowing the foreign countries to impose tariffs of the same value on US exports.

If we refuse then foreign countries can retaliate - but not for 3 years providing a nice little window for the domestic industry. Now I suppose it's possible to pull this on a small industry or once or twice and the world will blink. Clearly, though, no country is going to wait 3 years before retaliating on yet another set of sanctions with the threat of more to come.

And so off the rule-map we plunge. Any violation of US obligations under the WTO puts us at odds with the ENTIRE international trading community. Hence, the term "trade war."

Whatever happened to Trump negotiating trade DEALS as opposed to going rogue? He sure gave up fast.

Worse, yet, we HAVE real problems - that a trade war will not help even though Trump tweets he can win.

A trade war is quick and easy for HIM (he does have the executive power, without having to work with ANYONE) and provides click-bait.
Canada buys fully 50% of all the steel the U.S. exports.

Canada must be proactive to curb fallout from U.S. steel tariffs, stakeholders say - Politics - CBC News
 
Old 03-04-2018, 06:56 PM
 
3,099 posts, read 826,682 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Liberals, unions and Democrats are gaga over Trump's proposed tariff. Maybe Trump is in the wrong party.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/trum...nd-unions.html
Three quotes from that article ... you've got the:

GOP - "But Trump's GOP allies on Capitol Hill had little use for the tariff approach."

KOCH BROTHERS - "It hurts the administration politically because trade wars, protectionism, they lead to higher prices for individual Americans," Phillips said. "It's basically a tax increase."

And then TRUMP - "The president wasn't backing down, at least on Twitter, where he posted this message: "Trade wars are good, and easy to win."

This says it all. Again, it's what Trump CAN do and tweet about (anything more complicated is beyond him).
 
Old 03-04-2018, 07:10 PM
 
3,099 posts, read 826,682 times
Reputation: 1760
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Quote:
With so much cooperation between the two countries on the defence file, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said it was "absolutely unacceptable" to highlight Canadian steel or aluminum as a security threat. Trump is justifying the tariffs in part on national security grounds.
Yes ... what Trump whines is "unfair" he's forced to legally justify - apparently even under US statute - as our allies becoming a national security (or economic) threat.

I don't know trade law but from what I can tell Trump is using statutory language that WH attorneys tell him means he can sign an order that sidesteps the current trade order.

Too bad the rest of the world won't see it the way he does.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 07:14 PM
 
1,485 posts, read 305,475 times
Reputation: 416
After such huge tax breaks, of which it is mainly the rich benefiting, the average american get a tax increase or disguised in other word=tariff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tOkoPpAsJM
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