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Old 03-07-2018, 03:20 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 878,826 times
Reputation: 2466

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
My state will be heavily impacted by this. We manufacture farming equipment and produce energy. Steel is used in both these industries. I hope youíre all prepared to pay for the increase in cost at the pump and at the store.
Big time! I think inflation is getting ready to take off in a manner not seen since the 1970's.

 
Old 03-07-2018, 03:25 PM
 
Location: USA
17,091 posts, read 8,717,948 times
Reputation: 12891
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisan23 View Post
My state will be heavily impacted by this. We manufacture farming equipment and produce energy. Steel is used in both these industries. I hope youíre all prepared to pay for the increase in cost at the pump and at the store.
Iowa? Ethanol production?
 
Old 03-07-2018, 03:27 PM
 
3,066 posts, read 810,937 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Communism? WTH does this argument have to do with communism? ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemdiver View Post
It's more like President Trump lifted up the rug and the cockroaches are scattering when exposed to light.
Communism, cockroaches ... looks like any "C" word will do, in TrumpLand -- except the RIGHT one, which is China.

China is not yet the economic power that it will become. That country devotes itself to economic growth while the United States is distracted by every piddling war we can put our fingers into. China is nationalistic. China plans on becoming a worldwide power, and is well on its way. How that rise impacts the American lifestyle in decades to come is a toss up.

Wisely, Trump refrains from direct confrontation at this point if only because of North Korea. The Chinese government works to keep their massive population stable and we probably should take heed.

But economically it WILL have to be dealt with. So, how?

Do we ... cooperate with allies, use combined market power to shape the process to OUR favor where we can. No absolute win. Continued effort. Continued monitoring. Sure, life sucks. Cry me a river.

OR ... do we alienate those very same allies and start off with a renegade tariff? These national security tariffs - never BEFORE employed except against Iran and Libya for oil.

If you care about China you tell me. Concerned about the American lifestyle then let's try out Trump's new Peter Navarro. Maybe he WILL talk Trump into his pet idea - "border adjustment", which essentially taxes all imports.

Heard Navarro on Chris Wallace this Sunday ...

What about increasing prices?

Navarro doesn't want the American consumer to view the impact of price increases on their own budgets. Instead they should calculate price increases as a percent of our total GDP. Right. Try THAT one out on your wife.

Might across-the-board tariffs hurt U.S. companies and put jobs at risk? Navarro called it "fake news." Well, a new low in astute economic analysis here but obviously it works for Trump so why not.

More, Navarro blames concerns about a trade war on media sensationalism. At that point, Wallace had to remind him that it was Trump who tweeted out that trade wars are good and easy to win.

The way Navarro was ranting I swear he viewed the Fox appearance this Sunday as a Trump job try-out.

Like I said earlier in this thread we're screwed.
 
Old 03-07-2018, 03:29 PM
 
10,540 posts, read 3,963,992 times
Reputation: 5141
"We're screwed"

Nothing we can do but lay back and try to enjoy it while the rest of the world has their way with us, because THEY might become upset if we don't. We can't have that now, can we fellas?
 
Old 03-07-2018, 03:33 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 878,826 times
Reputation: 2466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
"We're screwed"

Nothing we can do but lay back and try to enjoy it while the rest of the world has their way with us, because THEY might become upset if we don't. We can't have that now, can we fellas?
That only works for those who have enough money in the bank to ride it out and absorb the increased price of everything. With so many Americans living paycheck to paycheck, I don't think it is going to be a smooth ride.
 
Old 03-07-2018, 03:56 PM
 
3,066 posts, read 810,937 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
"We're screwed"

Nothing we can do but lay back and try to enjoy it while the rest of the world has their way with us, because THEY might become upset if we don't. We can't have that now, can we fellas?
What's this rest of the world stuff?

China alone represents 50 PERCENT of our trade imbalance - and believe me they are just getting started.

You think folks in Flint have it hard now ... wait, just wait.

Ready to go to the mat with China?

Fine ... then be serious about it, maybe chat up some friends.

And not this playing around crap with some old steel mills and a defunct aluminum industry.

As for the national security excuse - downright embarrassing. Per some national security agreement (or umbrella, details ???) we were supposed to count all product in North American (you know, like close by and allies) as available.

Some more of that fuzzy math that our Canadian friends on this thread were complaining about.

The only reason ... we .... did ... that ... is ... because ... Trump COULD under the odd-ball national security provision.

It was a quick and easy little piddling play. All he had to do was fudge up a study and get someone at the White House to type up a paper for him.

And now he's the happy trade warrior. Just like he promised.

For now ... let's see what else Peter and Wilbur can talk him into.

Like good old Forrest Gump said ... Stupid is as Stupid Does.
 
Old 03-07-2018, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Avondale, Chicago
14,405 posts, read 26,191,810 times
Reputation: 9424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
Nothing we can do but lay back and try to enjoy it while the rest of the world has their way with us, because THEY might become upset if we don't. We can't have that now, can we fellas?
It's less about them being upset, than the consequences of the world at large telling us to stick the "privilege" of being part of the American consumer market up Uncle Sam's ass. It's less about the world being upset than the world just working us, like the way Europe worked around the Ottoman Empire to continue trade with the Far East and found a way to bring those goods home.

You are probably viewing this post on an electronic device you would probably not be able to afford if this happened, if it existed at all (considering it has components that we don't have here) if we want to take this to the hilt. When it's over, South Korea still makes the world's phones.

If you want to choke off third-rate steel from China - I don't know, quit buying it, maybe? But no, the reason we don't quit buying it is because it's cheap. The decision to buy that steel is as self-interested as any other action in the market.

Let's say I own a widget factory in Ohio, and I can build this widget for $15 and sell it for $30 with the cheap steel or I can build that widget for $30 and hope there's still a market for it at $60, even after I proudly proclaim it was made by steel from the AK Steel works in Middletown, Ohio, because of the non-competitive price point. There might be, there might not be and my factory might go out of business if not. Hopefully my workers can get a job at AK Steel in Middletown if I have to lay them off. It's a sound business decision.

Donald Trump, for the supposed business genius he is, has never actually produced a good or commodity other than his name and persona.

China's glut is mainly from a boom period in their early-stage capitalist experiment, and it's lost steam. They produced a load of steel but aren't building enough anymore to use it. Overproduction of a commodity is a classic capitalist crisis. It's a coming of age in their progression from starving peasants with central market planning.

Last edited by jfre81; 03-07-2018 at 05:44 PM..
 
Old 03-07-2018, 04:38 PM
 
2,608 posts, read 3,838,310 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Iowa? Ethanol production?
North Dakota, oil.

Steel pipe is used to drill wells.

Also, I suspect cars manufactured here will increase in price as well. We may actually see companies move manufacturing out of the US due to cost.
 
Old 03-07-2018, 05:01 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere
8,804 posts, read 4,048,290 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Big time! I think inflation is getting ready to take off in a manner not seen since the 1970's.
Stagflation is on its way. We will likely have a recessionary economy, high unemployment, combined with high inflation.
 
Old 03-07-2018, 05:06 PM
 
14,708 posts, read 3,911,837 times
Reputation: 10733
From Forbes:

"Since Trump’s election, U.S. trade policy has often just amounted to rhetoric rather than hard action. Trump’s friendly approach to China last year in Beijing cooled market concerns of a trade war. Now talk of a trade war has investors scratching their heads. Will he? Won't he? By his own admission, Trump likes chaos. (note - Markets don't).

If Trump did slap new tariffs on China, Xi Jinping's ultimate financial retaliation would be to sell the country's Treasury bond holdings. China is one of the biggest international holders of Treasury bonds. If they dumped, U.S. bond yields would spike and derail the economy."

So, Trump likes chaos...and that's "conservative". I thought being conservative is moving thoughtfully and carefully.

Maybe China will be nice and not dump our bonds, eh?
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