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Old 03-11-2018, 12:49 PM
 
8,302 posts, read 3,887,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Good point, not to mention the uncertainty that would have to be factored into the decision to build or expand a plant. A company could invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a new plant and have Trump tweet that he's removing the tariffs.
Exactly there is no way in the world that they are going to take the risk of investing in the capital equipment required to make steel in the USA again. There is only one outcome of this; every single company in the USA needing steel is going to have to pay more for it because it is still going to come from China. They are not going to lose money in the process, so they are left with only one choice - charge the end consumer more.

 
Old 03-11-2018, 12:50 PM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,099,295 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Especially the Congressional Republicans. Who are they trying to protect?

As Americans, we can take a hit, but with our market being the best destination for the world’s products, we can hit just as hard or harder. Why are we so afraid to make others cry uncle for once? Our workers and industries have been crying uncle for decades with no relief in sight...til now.

If many Americans take a big blow in a trade war, then we should simply step up to the plate and help take care of those that are adversely affected. That’s what strong nations are supposed to do.

I mean, so many Americans have no problems with actual physical wars where people are getting killed and we never win anything in the end, but we’re gonna punk out and tremble at the mere thought of a trade war? Please.

If the Chinese and Europeans want a trade war, let’s do it. I think we stand a good chance of winning it or at least getting a better bargain for our workers and our industries.
Heres some reading on the negative aspects of trade wars and protectionism =
https://www.google.ca/search?source=....0.2W3eXAJ-Ywk
 
Old 03-11-2018, 12:57 PM
 
8,480 posts, read 3,295,361 times
Reputation: 6834
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Heard some interviews in China last week. They couldn't care less, this has almost zero effect on them.

People don't seem to understand that it would take a trillion dollars of investment to bring the US primary metals industry up to the technological level of China or Japan. The idea that we are going to have thousands of new jobs suddenly appear in the US Steel industry is a pipe dream. Sure there will be a few, but NO ONE is going to invest the enormous sums to build new steel plants here in the USA. The old steel mills are pretty much ancient hulks of a former industry. Should know because I've been in a lot of them.
Here, too ... as a casual observer. Steel is a first stage step for an industrializing nation, necessary because so many downstream products are manufactured from steel. Our integrated steel mills were built decades before plants in Asia. The mini-mills are newer - but they are competitive on the world market.

The steel mills built under Mao in China, in contrast, have been junked - not because the Chinese were flush with cash but because Mao worried about an attack from the Soviets located many of them in isolated areas for protection. Totally impractical for a modern economy.

When China re-industrialized, much of it was with ultra-modern equipment some imported from Germany. That they were able to industrialize so quickly came, in part, at the expense of the workers, who lived in deplorable conditions. (Likewise, the Soviet economic miracle under Stalin came at the expense of the Ukrainian peasants who starved as their grain was exported to pay for the necessary foreign exchange).

By trying to compete with steel, we're fighting the wrong war.

I still maintain the only reason Trump did it was because that particular product permitted HIM to use the national security provision to slap on a tariff for it makes no economic nor national security sense - which is WHY Mattis opposed the tariffs.

A quick and easy "win" for Trump but a loss for the nation.
 
Old 03-11-2018, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Homeless
17,717 posts, read 13,457,159 times
Reputation: 11993
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Especially the Congressional Republicans. Who are they trying to protect?

As Americans, we can take a hit, but with our market being the best destination for the world’s products, we can hit just as hard or harder. Why are we so afraid to make others cry uncle for once? Our workers and industries have been crying uncle for decades with no relief in sight...til now.


If the Chinese and Europeans want a trade war, let’s do it. I think we stand a good chance of winning it or at least getting a better bargain for our workers and our industries.


And what about when said countries starting having their own tariffs against us as well? It goes both ways how many hits can we really take? it might bite us in the arse and take a chunk out of it.
 
Old 03-11-2018, 01:13 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,866,153 times
Reputation: 2288
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
And what about when said countries starting having their own tariffs against us as well? It goes both ways how many hits can we really take? it might bite us in the arse and take a chunk out of it.
Sure, it's a problem, but would be offset. We have a pretty deep deficit right now. This would be a much greater concern if things were balanced.
 
Old 03-11-2018, 01:23 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,866,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
We really don't know what will or won't happen this is all just an educated guess, isn't it?
Of course, as with any other prediction about the future or the downstream impacts of any given action(s).
 
Old 03-11-2018, 01:52 PM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,218 posts, read 30,462,071 times
Reputation: 10851
Let's see, we can build a wall to stop illegal immigration, or we could tank the economy through market controls to eliminate the jobs they come here to do. Which will solve the problem first?
 
Old 03-11-2018, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,754,306 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
So if all the liberals support Trump's plan, who fighting for more of this multinational favoritism that's hurt our country so badly? The NeoCon wing of the GOP, the NeoLib wing of the Democratic party. The Uniparty as they're known.

Wants to restructure our trade deals to benefit America:
R-Donald Trump
D-Bernie Sanders
D-Elizabeth Warren
D-Kirsten Gillebrand
D-Edward Markey
D-Jeff Merkly
G-Jill Stein

Wants to leave things the way they are, or accelerate them:
D-Hillary Clinton
R-Jeb Bush
R-Ted Cruz
R-Marco Rubio
R-John McCain
R-Lindsey Graham
R-John Cornyn
R-Orin Hatch
It's not neo-anything. That term is bandied about almost as much as "racist".

You're correct in calling them the "uni-party" though. The globalist party pretending to be two distinct parties representing the people. Problem is that every D on your list also voted against the tax reform. Maybe they agree on the tariffs, but they only pretend to care about citizens and American companies. In this case the only reason many Dems actually agree with Trump is because it will benefit union members, preserving their votes (they hope).

Both parties have become uber-partisan, but only one thrives on divisiveness. Two sides of the same dishonest coin, one being particularly insidious and completely corrupt.

Last edited by Ibginnie; 03-11-2018 at 04:15 PM.. Reason: Deleted quoted post
 
Old 03-11-2018, 02:13 PM
 
Location: ✶✶✶✶
15,218 posts, read 30,462,071 times
Reputation: 10851
It's 100 percent legitimate and reasonable - prudent, even - to examine and make changes to trade agreements over time.

There's a process to doing that. Negotiating terms that maximize the benefit for all parties involved, like a "master" of deal-making would do, or trying to strongarm the continent and the world at large to the benefit of the United States of America, and behaving as if the global market wouldn't exist without it. The notion is every bit as arrogant as it is incorrect and self-destructive.
 
Old 03-11-2018, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,361 posts, read 9,754,306 times
Reputation: 6663
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
It's 100 percent legitimate and reasonable - prudent, even - to examine and make changes to trade agreements over time.

There's a process to doing that. Negotiating terms that maximize the benefit for all parties involved, like a "master" of deal-making would do, or trying to strongarm the continent and the world at large to the benefit of the United States of America, and behaving as if the global market wouldn't exist without it. The notion is every bit as arrogant as it is incorrect and self-destructive.

Exactly right!!! WE are the global market, we invented free trade, we are 30% of the world GDP, we feed half the world, and we consume more than we export. Who needs who?

Any trade war a country could muster would be cutting their nose off to spite their face. We would win without feeling so much as a speed bump.
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