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I think Land Reform is a terrible idea. I am more in the belief that wealthy people generally improve the lives of everyone (although not as extreme as Republican position), the current system of forcing companies to hire incompetent people just because of race is discriminatory and taking all the land is the same. If you start handing lands to people who haven’t farmed for generations you won’t get anything out of it.
I think Land Reform will kill South Africa the way it is currently being implemented.
Also I don’t believe in punishing people for the deeds of their ancestors, another thing, much of the land in South Africa wasn’t stolen from Africans. South Africa was historically sparsely populated so the land there wasn’t and isn’t “Black Land” hence their are very few of the historical African villages in Southern part of Africa due to its sparse population.
I have t heard of anyone who is currently a farmer or living on a farm calling for land reform. I don’t want non farmers calling for things they can’t manage.
This is the reason why I am worried about it honestly. I wonder how many black farmers are in SA and if they are jeopardizing their food supply by being so hostile to the white farmers. I also do wonder if they can just implement a program whereas the white farmers teach the black populace who are interested how to farm/ranch and the government buys up land that is available and subsequently gives/leases it to the new apprenticed farmers. I think this would cause better good will towards each other on all sides.
Will note that I don't think that generally wealthy people improve the lives of the not wealthy. Most wealthy people do things IMO for selfish reasons; however I don't view most farmers as particularly wealthy either except due to the asset of land that they own. But I do believe an agricultural education apprenticeship program would be a great thing along with a land bank in local provinces that can provide land to interested indigenous persons who complete the apprenticeship program to try their hand at farming.
The vast majority of people commenting on this issue (in this thread and others) seem ignorant to the fact that this has long been a standing policy of the South African government and what is in the news is basically a change to this existing program, not the creation of a new program.
It has been estimated that under the current program it would take up to 35 years for the planned redistribution of land to occur. This change is about accelerating that process by removing the compensation barrier. Other barriers still exist and are around training sufficient numbers of black farmers and ensuring that the transfers do not impact food security for the country.
There are many arguments supporting both sides, but the reality at the end of the day is that South Africa has followed a very unique process of decolonization and returning power to the native inhabitants. The redistribution of a fair share of land to black farmers is simply a part of that long running process. It is also a vastly more peaceful process then what has occurred in other countries.
With that said, there are legitimate concerns to be raised over the move to not compensate white farmers for the land that is redistributed (a process white farmers have traditionally, if begrudgingly, supported). Overall, this switch in compensation is a populist move by the ANC (to accelerate the redistribution) and most analysts believe it will not withstand a challenge in court.
I think Land Reform is a terrible idea. I am more in the belief that wealthy people generally improve the lives of everyone (although not as extreme as Republican position), the current system of forcing companies to hire incompetent people just because of race is discriminatory and taking all the land is the same. If you start handing lands to people who haven’t farmed for generations you won’t get anything out of it.
I think Land Reform will kill South Africa the way it is currently being implemented.
Also I don’t believe in punishing people for the deeds of their ancestors, another thing, much of the land in South Africa wasn’t stolen from Africans. South Africa was historically sparsely populated so the land there wasn’t and isn’t “Black Land” hence their are very few of the historical African villages in Southern part of Africa due to its sparse population.
I have t heard of anyone who is currently a farmer or living on a farm calling for land reform. I don’t want non farmers calling for things they can’t manage.
I don't agree with that.
To me sub-Saharan Africa is black and Khoisan land because unlike with the other continents, white people had never been there before. Just because land is sparsely populated does not mean strangers can come and claim it. I can't go to Siberia and claim a piece of land there just because it is almost uninhabited.
I am white myself, but even I think that sub-Saharan land should belong to Khoisan and Bantu Africans. White people should never own more land than corresponds to their percentage of the population. That would already be quite generous, given the history.
Just because land ownership changes does not mean that all of a sudden people that have no idea of agriculture run farms. Black owners could hire the former white owners of the land.
Also, I have seen documentaries for instance on how SA wineries are run. There is still a lot of exploitation of black people going on (people living in ghettos without sanitation, reliable electricity, ill from the exposure to pesticides, etc.), while the white owners - in some cases living abroad - live in luxury. It is just unacceptable today.
This is the reason why I am worried about it honestly. I wonder how many black farmers are in SA and if they are jeopardizing their food supply by being so hostile to the white farmers. I also do wonder if they can just implement a program whereas the white farmers teach the black populace who are interested how to farm/ranch and the government buys up land that is available and subsequently gives/leases it to the new apprenticed farmers. I think this would cause better good will towards each other on all sides.
Will note that I don't think that generally wealthy people improve the lives of the not wealthy. Most wealthy people do things IMO for selfish reasons; however I don't view most farmers as particularly wealthy either except due to the asset of land that they own. But I do believe an agricultural education apprenticeship program would be a great thing along with a land bank in local provinces that can provide land to interested indigenous persons who complete the apprenticeship program to try their hand at farming.
Yep. White people in SA should accept their minority status and that in the future black and brown people will dominate everything in that country. And there is no need to pretend to be victims. Unlike blacks in the US, white people in SA were not shipped there against their will, their ancestors went there on purpose.
Instead of trying to cling to privileges of the past, white farmers should contribute to develop a generation of capable black farmers. At the end of the day, it is also in the interest of the white minority that SA as a whole does well in the future.
Yep. White people in SA should accept their minority status and that in the future black and brown people will dominate everything in that country. And there is no need to pretend to be victims. Unlike blacks in the US, white people in SA were not shipped there against their will, their ancestors went there on purpose.
Instead of trying to cling to privileges of the past, white farmers should contribute to develop a generation of capable black farmers. At the end of the day, it is also in the interest of the white minority that SA as a whole does well in the future.
They are following the precedent set in Rhodesia...that went well.
They are following the precedent set in Rhodesia...that went well.
True Nelson Mandela's example proofed to be short lived and South Africa has a chance to to be a large Zimbabwe just like Rhodesia was a small South Africa
By now, most of us know that South Africa has voted to seize land from white farmers w/o compensation. I do think that blacks need to have more ownership in the land and that the current situation (resulting from Apartheid) was never right to begin with. I want to know do you think there was any other recourse to right the wrong or is this the best way to go about it?
P.S. Other races may comment, but trolls (and you know who you are) need to stay away.
I guess one could say that if you believe in trillions in reparations for our black folks and native americans (the blacks never got the promised 40 acres and a mule, let alone the fruits of their labors) - or reparations for the populations in Appalacia who had their entire forests cut and shipped to the NE and overseas...and so on....
Bottom line - the breaks are the breaks sometimes. How much in Gold and Diamonds did the "white man" steal from S. Africa?
Now - if you asked whether the ENTIRE WORLD (through the UN or something) could give them reparations, I might agree. I'd chip in $10 and if a billion others did we'd be far along the way.
I agree with this. I would rather they do a program of reform and do a gradual sort of take away, if you can call it that, from the current "owners."
I do agree that it is difficult to reconcile in regards to the fact that the current white owners, their recent ancestors did steal the land from the indigenous population. However, I'd hope they do some sort of program, which won't put the country in a bad predicament like what occurred in Zimbabwe when something similar occurred.
Will note as well that I have an old professor from my undergraduate years who is black and her family's land was basically stolen from her father in the 1940s in S. Georgia. The white man who stole the land subsequently left it to his son and grandson who is the current owner/farmer of the land. My professor's family had been fighting the theft in court for decades and finally won their suit in the early 00s but the courts would not give them their family's land back citing that it would hurt the current white owner even though in the 1940s when my professor was a baby, the theft of the land rendered her family (she was the youngest of 8 children) homeless. She was very upset about the judge's comments - being that the white man's "hurt" was more important than her family's decades of hurt also the fact that they could not get their land back. They were given a monetary settlement which was the current value of the land, but the family actually did want the land back. What is going on in SA reminds me of her and her family. I would also want the land back.
Do you own property? Did you purchase it legally? Imagine if in the future the American Indians got a law passed to take your land and everyone else’s land in this country, without compensation and with a threat to kill you in the near future? How would you feel about that?
People here act like most people would want to be farmers in the 21st century.
South Africa is an urbanized society and most people have absolutely no desire to do backbreaking farm work.
Black ANC leaders will just own land which will be farmed by immigrants from neighboring countries. Neighboring countries where a tiny rich black elite control huge amounts of resources and refuse to give up power and privilege. Countries like Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Malawi is where the farmers will come from. And the corrupt leadership in South Africa will continue to rule with an iron fist.
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