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Rather than simply attack the idea as "too liberal," why not present your reasoned arguments against it?
Rewarding the worst behaviors creates adverse selection problems. This has the effect of making crime pay, and pay handsomely. Joe Average Law Abiding American has to study in high school, sweat grades, college boards, etc, and then figure out how to pay for college...or they could simply commit a felony crime against their fellow man and get that for free? You punish good behavior and reward bad behavior. Has the explosion of the welfare state state taught you nothing about human nature?
There are plenty of other corollary arguments, but all derive from incentivizing the worst behavior and where that logical road ultimately leads.
This in effect creates a double punishment once you serve your time you should be free to seek gainful employment not forced back into crime.
Of course you should be free to seek employment but everyone else is also free to choose whether and to what extent they want to associate with you. A person's reputation is an organic thing that can't be decided by decree. An ex-con has to win back the trust of society and that can only happen gradually, through their own efforts.
Rewarding the worst behaviors creates adverse selection problems.
How do you explain other countries who do this and have lower recidivism rates? If what you are saying is true everyone would be a criminal in Norway or Sweden yet they have high economic output and a low recidivism rate. Also prisoners are punished in the current US model for good behavior namely the inability to find gainful employment so its right back to crime and you the taxpayer is on the hook for paying for the prisoner.
An ex-con has to win back the trust of society and that can only happen gradually, through their own efforts.
I agree with this and that process should start in prison through either job training programs or college classes. Once they have served there time they can be evaluated and if they are behaving the record should be erased no sense in punishing for the sake of punishment.
This in effect creates a double punishment once you serve your time you should be free to seek gainful employment not forced back into crime. Informed Consent provided a good middle ground slowly restore it over time with no recidivism I could get behind that. The current system creates a revolving door and the taxpayers are on the hook making these criminals wards of the state for life.
Ok, will you be hiring an ex-con? Practice what you preach.
Because that will incentivize people to go to prison, and because frankly the prison population does not have the cognitive capacity to make use of college. People with options generally don't commit crimes.
By that logic, homeless people would be committing violent crimes in front of cops left and right in order to ensure a lifetime of "free" room and board.
How do you explain other countries who do this and have lower recidivism rates? If what you are saying is true everyone would be a criminal in Norway or Sweden yet they have high economic output and a low recidivism rate. Also prisoners are punished in the current US model for good behavior namely the inability to find gainful employment so its right back to crime and you the taxpayer is on the hook for paying for the prisoner.
1) Other countries are not the US. Norway and Sweden are FAR more racially and culturally homogeneous than the US. Where the Norway and Sweden model is being attempted, like North Dakota for example, it is more racially and culturally homogeneous than the larger US and also, like Scandinavia, more sparsely populated with already lower crime rates. What works in North Dakota and Norway is not the same model that works in southern CA or the 5 Burroughs of NYC. Actually, North Dakota is more Scandinavian than almost any other part of America.
2) The example given is making prisons look and function like a standard idyllic university campus. If you make that a reality, along with your notion of erasing the record to no longer "perpetuate punishment," then crime is the easiest and cheapest way to obtain a college degree, and has no downside except being confined to the campus and maybe missing out on some of the non-academic hedonism stuff. But by and large, why bust your ass studying for years and going into debt and all that when you can just commit a quick 4-6 year sentence crime and get instant acceptance, free tuition/books/supplies/room & board/food/etc, and exactly no reprisal whatsoever? Basically, it's a non-coed boarding school with slightly more restrictive policies for leaving campus, and totally free tuition.
Sorry, but unless every university in America goes totally cost free, it incentivizes crime because a temporary loss of freedom for a few years in exchange for a completely free (of any cost minus the aforementioned temporary loss of total freedom) college degree is the best deal going. Essentially, the prison system is now like the military academies, except instead of needing to be exceptional like those accepted into our military academies, you just need to initiate harm against your fellow man, and there is no "must serve 3-6 years after degree" requirement, if you pick the right crime anyway. West Point with less fancy uniforms, and way easier acceptance.
An aggressive. often-unbalanced former prisoner isn't likely to develop the skills to work at Chuck E. Cheese's -- let alone advance into the world of low-level management where the customer (who often expects too much) is "always right", and insincere self-effacement is the order of the day, and the measure of "effective" management is usually an ability to hold junior employees' feet to the fire at lower-level functions. The gray world best-depicted fifty years ago in Cool Hand Luke is, regrettably, still an appropriate simile.
Our educational system needs two things, (1) an understanding, embrace, and promotion of the free-enterprise system, but tempered with the recognition that the "Snowflake Dream" sold by Madison Avenue to an over-sensitized society grown soft, can only go so far -- and (2) an emphasis on reform and refinement of organizational behavior and realistic personal goals and "self-defense" to protect the rights of, and grant a basic amount of autonomy, flexibility and self-respect to the responsible employee.
The "Korporate" world, like both the "correctional" and "educational" systems, is just another dictatorship, built around the manipulation of too much authority and unwittingly, turned into more of a jungle by the social upheavals of recent years; those changes were necessary -- a genie that can't be put back in the bottle -- but they have produced losers as well as winners, and the vast majority of those losers are males already vilified and stigmatized by an increasingly-feminized culture.
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Neither the over-swaddled children led around by the likes of msn.com, nor the majority of dullards and minority of urban savages produced by our mediocre public education systems have much interest in this; they've been convinced by that failed system that their plight is somebody else's fault.
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Originally Posted by The Dark Enlightenment
It isn't that it's "too liberal", rather it's the kind of dumb idea that only liberals love.
The violent, low-IQ, middle school dropouts who fill the prison system aren't going to benefit from pretending to study climate science and poetry at a pretend college. Leave them in their cells, or put them to work at something that will lead to development of a practical skill they can use to gain employment on the outside.
The vast majority of inmates aren't violent offenders. The largest percentage of them by far are there simply there because of drug offenses.
There used to be places they could work with no problem but that is gone.
There is going to be fallout and plenty of it as the price for shutting a lot of people out of society.
They know most criminals cannot be rehabilitated, it assuages their guilt to pretend they are providing a solution. SJWs benefit from This society which keeps toxic masculine men down. If they can't mold them into a bunch of neutered numales why would they want them out in society. They must think that is possible by teaching them about fine wine and poetry.
There used to be places they could work with no problem but that is gone.
There is going to be fallout and plenty of it as the price for shutting a lot of people out of society.
They know most criminals cannot be rehabilitated, it assuages their guilt to pretend they are providing a solution. SJWs benefit from This society which keeps toxic masculine men down. If they can't mold them into a bunch of neutered numales why would they want them out in society. They must think that is possible by teaching them about fine wine and poetry.
Interesting how people actually *are* rehabilitated in other countries, where prisoners have much more comfortable conditions.
And mind you, those are more likely to actually have been violent offenders, considering that other countries aren't obsessed with locking people up for every little thing the way the US is.
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