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That presumes steady state. If you cease to participate, now, you can claim it's not YOUR number or account. However law us not static, but ever changing and adapting (in particular state revenue laws, hence 60,000 pages of US tax code).
With an assigned number, and no way to opt out without using government provided services, you may still be on the hook at some future time. Hey you want stupid, Boris Johnson owing tax on the sale of his London residence, because he was solely born in the US, to non-US parents. He had forced citizenship that led to him owing tax 30+ years after the fact, just by accident of birth location.
If the US Gov can do that, no matter how much you wave your hands, or pieces of paper, or bandy semantics, you are a serf, and will always be a serf, because the law you desperately depend on is one wing of government that you try to deny.
I've been trying to tell him that.
He simply traded in one fiction for another fiction.
You can't use their currency to buy their stamp to mail them a letter using their postal services requesting to dissolve one aspect of a relationship you deem fictional and then claim you are off the hook.
That is even more insane than statism itself.
I'll never understand these sovereign citizen types or anti-federalists.
Under the republican form of government, the people are sovereigns, with endowed rights. However, they may consent, and thus surrender / waive those rights in exchange for privileges.
For example, volunteering to be a subject citizen imposes mandatory militia duty - which would be a violation of the rights to life and liberty if citizenship was compulsory.
Since no government instituted to secure endowed rights can infringe, impair or deny rights without consent, how did it get the delegated power to impose citizenship, at birth, with all its attendant mandatory civic duties?
Ask your public servants to explain THAT to you.
Politicians, who are mostly LAWYERS incorrectly think we live in a Democracy while in reality we are a Constitutional Representative Republic. I have no problem being part of the militia if necessary. Do I want to see armed conflict on U.S. soil? HELL NO!
While in Dental School, my father was FORCED to be inducted as a Private in the Army if he wanted to stay in school when WWII began. The U.S. Government took over all medical schools at the time. He chose to stay, then upon graduation was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant, and eventually rose to the rank of Captain before they let him go after six years of service. ALL FORCED. However, it was some of the best years of his life, but in effect, yes it was indentured servitude.
He simply traded in one fiction for another fiction.
You can't use their currency to buy their stamp to mail them a letter using their postal services requesting to dissolve one aspect of a relationship you deem fictional and then claim you are off the hook.
That is even more insane than statism itself.
I'll never understand these sovereign citizen types or anti-federalists.
Oh. Remember we've already been told sovereign citizen is an oxymoron (by grammatical means), even though the concept of the term stands.
Yeah, it's why I only had a brief flirtation, because it was like getting divorced and still expecting to get laid by you ex. It made zero sense.
Oh. Remember we've already been told sovereign citizen is an oxymoron (by grammatical means), even though the concept of the term stands.
Yeah, it's why I only had a brief flirtation, because it was like getting divorced and still expecting to get laid by you ex. It made zero sense.
It makes zero sense because the State, regardless of level (federal, state, local), has no face and no continuity. As you pointed out, it's not static. How can you consent with a party that has no identity and worse yet...can magically morph itself by other agreements as it sees fit? The real answer is it's all fiction. A social construct. The State is not an individual. It has no rights.
He's quoted me state (small s) law numerous times in this thread as a defense against federal law.
That presumes steady state. If you cease to participate, now, you can claim it's not YOUR number or account. However law us not static, but ever changing and adapting (in particular state revenue laws, hence 60,000 pages of US tax code).
With an assigned number, and no way to opt out without using government provided services, you may still be on the hook at some future time. Hey you want stupid, Boris Johnson owing tax on the sale of his London residence, because he was solely born in the US, to non-US parents. He had forced citizenship that led to him owing tax 30+ years after the fact, just by accident of birth location.
If the US Gov can do that, no matter how much you wave your hands, or pieces of paper, or bandy semantics, you are a serf, and will always be a serf, because the law you desperately depend on is one wing of government that you try to deny.
Please read law yourself, and find one law that violates endowed rights, without consent of the governed.
I can't find one. Let me know when you do.
. . . . .
All endowed rights and liberties are from the Creator, not government, and thus cannot be subject to a majority vote, or any other infringement.
" Personal liberty, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or natural Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property...and is regarded as inalienable."
- - - 16 Corpus Juris Secundum, Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987.
- - - - - - - -
In this one short citation, we see mention of those pesky inalienable / inherent / sacred / creator endowed rights to LIFE, LIBERTY (natural and personal), and PRIVATE PROPERTY (absolutely owned).
NATURAL RIGHTS - ... are the rights of life, liberty, privacy, and good reputation.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., p. 1324
NO AMERICAN GOVERNMENT INSTITUTED TO SECURE ENDOWED RIGHTS CAN TRESPASS UPON THEM.
HOWEVER, if one has consented, all bets are off.
Sit down, shut up, pay and obey.
Short review of the foundation of American law - - -
" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
--- Declaration of Independence, 1776
1. All (American) men are created (not endowed) with equality (before the law). (No one has a higher status before the law, not even the government).
2. Governments have two jobs: secure these endowed rights, and govern only those who consent.
3. All (American) men are endowed with rights to life ... and liberty.
....
According to American law, liberty has four types: natural, personal, civil and political.
● Natural = absolute freedom (on one's own property or unclaimed land)
● Personal = right of locomotion (freedom to travel on public roads and waterways)
● Civil = permission from government (licenses, permits)
● Political = participation in government (voting, holding office)
The former two are endowed rights, the latter two are government privileges.
LIBERTY. 1. Freedom from restraint. The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature.
2. Liberty is divided into civil, natural, personal, and political.
- - - BOUVIER’S LAW DICTIONARY, 1856 ED.
....
" NATURAL LIBERTY is the right which nature gives to all mankind, of disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most consonant to their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and that they do not in any way abuse it to the prejudice of other men."
- - - Bouvier's Law Dictionary
NATURAL LIBERTY - The power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, unless by the law of nature. The right which nature gives to all mankind of disposing of their persons and property after the manner in which they judge most consistent with their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits of the law of nature, and so as not to interfere in the equal exercise of the same rights by other men. 1 Blackstone's Commentaries, 123,
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth edition, p. 919.
NOTE: A right endowed by one’s Creator, and / or a right which nature gives to all mankind, cannot be a government granted privilege without your consent.
---
The “pursuit of happiness” is a euphemism for absolute ownership of private property. For only upon that which you absolutely own can you freely pursue happiness without needing permission. Furthermore, as one can see in the definition for natural liberty, it is a right to dispose of (i.e., arrange, give, sell, transfer) their persons and property as they see fit. To do so, without another’s permission is a tacit admission that the government is NOT an authority over such rights nor can it demand your obedience.
If one concatenates “right to life” with “natural liberty” it is evident that one has the right to support one’s life with any harmless activity upon one’s own property, without the need of permission (license) of the servant government.
Since the 1930s and the socialist revolution, such American ideas as individual sovereignty, absolute ownership of private property, natural rights to liberty, privacy and even reputation have been trampled by those who gained control over government. (Consider that the demand for government issued ID is a subtle way of saying you have no reputation to rely upon. Only by government privilege can you live, work, travel, own, or trade.)
Victims of subterfuge, propaganda, deception, indoctrination, extortion, and connivance, Americans were whipsawed by a deliberate economic constriction to embrace socialist chains in order to survive.
That millions are wholly ignorant of the nature and cause is a triumph of the world’s greatest propaganda ministry bar none. But consent of the governed is behind it all.
When you opt out do you know for a fact that they ball up a piece of paper with your "old" SS# on it and swallow it?
What about the price of the stamp? You haven't addressed that. I'm being serious. How can you dissolve your relationship minus that tribute?
When asked for "my" number, I reply that I do not participate in that program.
When they persist, I reply that it is against my religious beliefs to participate in that abomination.
They move on.
Simple as that.
(And cease participating in any privilege / program associated with FICA)
Last edited by jetgraphics; 03-24-2018 at 09:42 AM..
Politicians, who are mostly LAWYERS incorrectly think we live in a Democracy while in reality we are a Constitutional Representative Republic. [NO, it's NOT] I have no problem being part of the militia if necessary. Do I want to see armed conflict on U.S. soil? HELL NO!
While in Dental School, my father was FORCED to be inducted as a Private in the Army if he wanted to stay in school when WWII began. The U.S. Government took over all medical schools at the time. He chose to stay, then upon graduation was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant, and eventually rose to the rank of Captain before they let him go after six years of service. ALL FORCED. However, it was some of the best years of his life, but in effect, yes it was indentured servitude.
All citizens are presumed to have consented to be governed, and have therefore pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor, just like the Founders.
And that includes MANDATORY CIVIC DUTIES.
As in BEING FORCED.
The only option is to withdraw consent from citizenship (and related privileges) and restore status under the republican form of government.
The USA is the only country with a REPUBLICAN FORM OF GOVERNMENT.
Republicanism has no connection with republic. It is derived from the Declaration of Independence wherein Americans assert Creator endowed rights that governments are instituted to secure. Those governments are servants of the sovereign people, not their masters. However, those who consent to be governed, descend in status to subjects of their sovereign government, waiving their endowment in the process.
Thanks to pervasive indoctrination, most Americans are led to believe they were "born" subject citizens, with mandatory civic duties, and have to enroll into FICA / socialist insecurity in order to live, work, trade, and own in their own country. That is a stunning victory for the world's greatest propaganda ministry.
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