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The discussion is about who was right, Obama, Trump, neither or both. If you want to rail about how much you hate our country, either start a new thread to discuss it, or just MTFO (Move The F Out) if you really hate it here so much.
I'm done responding to anything other than the topic of this thread. (and getting really close to whoever it was who said "come back when it hit's 100 responses. That was likely you, or one of your mental clones.)
Interesting.
To the country, I think Petch's post that you're replying to shows how much she loves this country, and...along with many of her other posts on this thread...likely moreso than others who come to mind on this thread. Why do I feel that way? Because I think Petch's attitude more closely follows the spirit of the founders, and the spirit that built this country.
As to the original question posed in the thread? I think both Trump and Obama were wrong.
To the country, I think Petch's post that you're replying to shows how much she loves this country, and...along with many of her other posts on this thread...likely moreso than others who come to mind on this thread. Why do I feel that way? Because I think Petch's attitude more closely follows the spirit of the founders, and the spirit that built this country.
As to the original question posed in the thread? I think both Trump and Obama were wrong.
Yes I am very thankful I live in the U.S. In a lot of countries people die in the class they were born. I grew up in a lower middle class, and was able to move to upper middle class. In the U.S. we are free, there are opportunities for people who think bigger than their next payday and are willing to take risks and put in the effort. That's why we have an "immigration problem". They recognize the opportunities are here but American born don't seem to get it. Instead they're waiting for gov't and they'll be disappointed, most will die waiting.
Being an employee is not easy nor is running a business, but it is very different than being an employee, a lot of risk and responsibility but I'd do it again. By being an employee you limit what you can make because you exchange x amount of your time for x amount of $$.
It's hard for an employee to get ahead because time is limited and because we have a progressive tax system. Time is money and you can never get back the time you spent to earn the money gov't takes from you, at the very least gov't could be more respectful of it's citizens and stop acting a teen with daddy's credit card. Being on both sides (employee, small business employer) and having a better understanding, Obama was not good for small business or employees.
Ironically American born want changes that immigrants are trying to escape from.
I'm not going to even bother posting the links. These were both comments that were widely publicized, and you can google them right now (I just did). There are multiple sources, and many "takes" on what was said, and what was meant. I don't expect a clear winner, but I would be interested to see who CDers think was right:
Obama: "If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."
Trump: " I alone can fix it. I will restore law and order.
Obama and Trump are two of the worst presidents in US history. They are proof that this nation is circling the drain. Because of these two I know cringe when someone tells a kid “anyone can grow up to be president”. Sadly these two are proof that is true.
Yes I am very thankful I live in the U.S. In a lot of countries people die in the class they were born. I grew up in a lower middle class, and was able to move to upper middle class. In the U.S. we are free, there are opportunities for people who think bigger than their next payday and are willing to take risks and put in the effort. That's why we have an "immigration problem". They recognize the opportunities are here but American born don't seem to get it. Instead they're waiting for gov't and they'll be disappointed, most will die waiting.
I like to call out when I agree too. I greyed out the last part, because I see it differently (but also acknowledge the point you're making), but to the rest, I agree 100%.
As for "You didn't build that", here is another way to look at it:
My dad and I have an ongoing 'debate' about iPhone vs Android. He likes iPhones, and I like Android (in reality, they are both great, it's just a silly thing to goad each other about).
He once made the comment that "Apple invented the Smart-phone". He went on to say how that was the single biggest technology advancement in modern history. I agreed that they introduced the smartphone, and that it had huge implications (good and bad implications, but that's not the point). But I countered that they could not have invented the smartphone if the silicone chip did not exist. If TouchScreen Technology didn't exist, if you go back far enough, if electricity had not been discovered, blah blah blah.
Without getting into who is right or wrong, it's a very interesting discussion. The point is that major inventions like the Smartphone (or the automobile, or the space-shuttle, or...._) are built upon things that already existed. They are extensions.
To say that Apple did not invent the smart-phone in a vacuum (no pun intended) is not to take credit from the huge contribution it made (good and bad) to society. It's not to take away the innovation that Apple had.
All the barbs and insults aside, I should like to think that you and I (Petch and Myghost, or everyone) should be able to find some common ground that the people who invest and build businesses have accomplished something great in most cases. Their blood, sweat and tears are such a part of the equation, that without it, their business likely would not have happened. But it's also important to recognize that they built their own success, and potentially success for others, on the backs of things that already existed. They did it by "partnering" (in some cases, that means paying another person a fair wage for their services) with people, other businesses, and even the government in the form of using infrastructure. It is not to say that our government, nor anyone or anything else, gets to take credit away from them for their accomplishment. It's just to acknowledge that that one Entrepeneur recognized a need, understood the ENTIRE landscape, and put together a business plan based on available resources, to succeed.
Could we at least agree on that?
To me, to say "You didn't build that" (with all the context that was given with that statement) is simply to acknowledge that it takes all those things coming together, and ALSO to acknowledge that the Entrepreneur often needs to be at the helm to steer the ship. TO ME, that is what Obama was getting at.
Obama and Trump are two of the worst presidents in US history. They are proof that this nation is circling the drain. Because of these two I know cringe when someone tells a kid “anyone can grow up to be president”. Sadly these two are proof that is true.
Don't forget about W. Collectively the last three have done more damage than can even be put into words.
"I alone can fix it." is right out of Putin's playbook and sends chills down my spine. Obama says that you didn't build it alone makes more sense. No one person can do everything without help and cooperation from many.
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