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Old 03-24-2018, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,084 posts, read 10,644,681 times
Reputation: 9720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tominftl View Post
If you were shot at and saw your friends dying around you, you may think differently about assault type weapons....
I have yet to see an assault weapon being used in a mass shooting.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:11 PM
 
31,913 posts, read 14,898,997 times
Reputation: 13562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
So I sat down and watched the entire 3 hour rally... Heir Goebbels would have been impressed but I thought the art was a wee bit more advanced these days.

The narrative was so "by the book":

What are you scared of? Getting killed by someone with a gun! (insert some scary stories of death and violence here).

What do we want you to to believe is the root of the problem? Public ownership of guns! (insert scary AR15 video with sinister music/unverified statistics here)

Who's to blame? The evil NRA and Legislators who don't push gun control! (Insert more scary NRA vieos and blame gun control fence-sitters)

Attention spans are finite...Getting bored? Watch Miley and Ariana sing! You've heard of them, right?

What's the solution? Vote Democrat!!! Yay!

Some things were freaking hilarious. At one point, one of the speakers said, yeah there's famous singers and movie stars in the audience but this is real life! Not the (flop) Oscars! Never mind this propaganda piece had a budget in the hundreds of millions and quietly paid travel expenses for tens of thousands of warm bodies to be there for pictures and videos of impressive crowds... yeah, that's real life all right. Add just the right amount of nervous kids being nervous but who somehow pull it all together just as they make their talk's "point" with fire and ambition... seems legit, right?

When the shaved head militant girl gave her speech, she literally pulled a tactic straight out of #$÷ing Adolph Hitler's speech playbook... stand there silent and scowling for an awkwardly long time so the crowd could build anticipation for her to say something that would surely be earth-shattering.

And then to top it off, they attempted do what all propaganda tries to do: turn the world upside-down and convince the audience that making MORE restrictions on people somehow makes them more free.

And to seal the deal, they tried to tap into religious zeal gospel style and make the whole thing into a memorable psuedo-religious experience.

People of America... I don't even care what your personal stance on gun control is anymore, but please, just tell me you are more sophisticated than 100 year old propaganda techniques. Cause if you're not... we are ALL doomed to repeat the horrors of the previous century.
Her name is Emma. Her silence for 6 minutes represented the 17 kids who were killed within that time frame. It wasn't propaganda. It was being respectful for the ones who were died. They know nothing about propaganda. They are just tired of seeing their friends dying next to them, and they are taking a stand....finally. I am so proud of them.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,398,176 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Nobody is wanting to remove anyone's rights. Somehow that message is just not penetrating.
you are lying...why??

the bill of right... the PEOPLES rights...are there to PROTECT US..

the 2nd amendment SPECIFICALLY says "shall not be infringed"

banning a basic gun...a basic rifle... a basic small caliber rifle... is infringement

there is NO DIFFERENCE between an ar15 (a small caliber semi automatic) and any other modern HANDGUN

heck my 1911 45cal has MORE KNOCKDOWN power than the ar15


you enjoy the 1st amendment??? your ability to protest and SPEAK FREELY???...it goes away with the removal of the 2nd amendment

you enjoy the 1st amendment??? your protection against search and seizer of your property???...it goes away with the removal of the 2nd amendment and confiscation of guns

you enjoy the 5st amendment??? your ability to SPEAK FREELY and no self incriminate???...it goes away with the removal of the 2nd amendment.. and your ability to say "I have/havenot guns"

Last edited by workingclasshero; 03-24-2018 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,084 posts, read 10,644,681 times
Reputation: 9720
Quote:
Originally Posted by staywarm2 View Post
Personally, I'd like to confiscate all the AR-15's in the US and give them to the US Army. However, the Constitution won't allow that. So we all have to live in fear that some gun nut will decide to take out his frustrations in life with an AR-15 and shoot up a school or church or store... and kill a bunch of people/kids.

Why does your right to have a certain gun triumph over my (and everyone else's) right to live. The NRA is the reason, and the masculine hormone called "gun-toting" has everything to do with it. AR-15 = a big P***s.
The firearm used in a mass shooting has exactly nothing to do with why a mass shooting takes place. You could take away the AR-15 tomorrow, and the next school shooting will be perpetrated with another firearm. The problem isn't the firearm used, it's the fact that idiots are raising junior psychopaths.

Why is my right to own a firearm trumped by the right of parents to have children that they don't raise to be decent human beings?
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,139 posts, read 22,740,595 times
Reputation: 14116
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Right. I'm sure gun enthusiasts have plenty of others to choose from. Nobody needs a gun that was meant for mass destruction.
My hell, do you people think AR's shoot mini-nukes or something?

A gunman could have literally done as much damage or more in the last shootings with a lever action rifle designed in the 1800s.

... which is why gun owners know the assault on our rights won't stop with military-style semi-autos.

But I did say I don't care what your opinions on guns are in post #1 didn't I? It's fine if you hate guns... just be honest about your hatred and get schooled on what firearms actually can/can't do...
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:17 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,601,039 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
you start removing/revising/eliminating/restricting rights of the "Bill of rights" your OTHER rights will be infringed
Every single item in the "Bill of Rights" has been modified to fit the present. I could list all of them but it would take too long.

Of course, your assumption is that the 2nd didn't mean what it says in Plain US English - a fact which was considered the ultimate truth up until relatively recently...

Imagine, for example, if someone took the 1st Amendment as written and then defined it like gun crazies define the 2nd. You should be able to walk into the NY Times and write a headline and tell them they MUST run it due to your 1st Amendment rights. Or, during the Super Bowl, you could insist on going up on stage at 1/2 time and delivering your 1st Amendment message and/or rights.

Hey, how about the 14th"

"4: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Well, now we have a POTUS that suggested not paying debts! He was just going to nullify them...he actually said that. When is the hanging?

How about #15:
"(Amendment 15 - Rights of Citizens to Vote)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude"

Hmmm.....MANY states have "abridged" and continue to "abridged" the right to vote. In many states, convicts who served their time cannot vote....ever! Isn't that a "previous condition of servitude" or "abridged"? To say nothing of an entire century after that Amendment when Black Folks in the South couldn't vote for fear of their lives.....

I could go on - but neither you nor I are constitutional scholars nor SCOTUS judges (who we now know are no different than regular pols).

The point stands. "Rights" are always under consideration based on circumstances. In many cases, these are under assault in a negative fashion...such as Red states trying to limit voting. In other cases, they are fought over in the courts for positive reasons.

IN ANY CASE, you cannot build your world on one or two sentences that mean something different than what you think...and are 10% subject to the rulings of the Congress and the SCOTUS. Barring that, we could always amend but I see no reason to do so. As many have said, it's a matter of being reasonable. Given the choice between:

1. Tens of thousand dead....many innocents and children
and
2. Limiting you to 500 rounds instead of 10,000 at a time for purchase (example)......I'd pick #2.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,398,176 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Right. I'm sure gun enthusiasts have plenty of others to choose from. Nobody needs a gun that was meant for mass destruction.
its not meant for mass destruction


now if you were to say m16, m60, m249 you know full auto weapons.... or lets say c4 explosive...then you may be using the correct term

but instead you lie and call a small caliber ar15 a WMD.....

Last edited by workingclasshero; 03-24-2018 at 07:46 PM..
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:19 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,601,039 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
But I did say I don't care what your opinions on guns are in post #1 didn't I? It's fine if you hate guns... just be honest about your hatred and get schooled on what firearms actually can/can't do...
Ah, so the surgeons who wrote the long articles and posted the MRI's and who deal with dozens of gunshot wounds weekly.....are you going to school them also?

Maybe you can "school" them on how to create a liver from scratch now that some kids liver turned to wet dust? If so, you must be good.

What do I hate. Lack of logic and reason and facts. Period.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,398,176 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Every single item in the "Bill of Rights" has been modified to fit the present. I could list all of them but it would take too long.

Of course, your assumption is that the 2nd didn't mean what it says in Plain US English - a fact which was considered the ultimate truth up until relatively recently...

Imagine, for example, if someone took the 1st Amendment as written and then defined it like gun crazies define the 2nd. You should be able to walk into the NY Times and write a headline and tell them they MUST run it due to your 1st Amendment rights. Or, during the Super Bowl, you could insist on going up on stage at 1/2 time and delivering your 1st Amendment message and/or rights.

Hey, how about the 14th"

"4: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Well, now we have a POTUS that suggested not paying debts! He was just going to nullify them...he actually said that. When is the hanging?

How about #15:
"(Amendment 15 - Rights of Citizens to Vote)
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude"

Hmmm.....MANY states have "abridged" and continue to "abridged" the right to vote. In many states, convicts who served their time cannot vote....ever! Isn't that a "previous condition of servitude" or "abridged"? To say nothing of an entire century after that Amendment when Black Folks in the South couldn't vote for fear of their lives.....

I could go on - but neither you nor I are constitutional scholars nor SCOTUS judges (who we now know are no different than regular pols).

The point stands. "Rights" are always under consideration based on circumstances. In many cases, these are under assault in a negative fashion...such as Red states trying to limit voting. In other cases, they are fought over in the courts for positive reasons.

IN ANY CASE, you cannot build your world on one or two sentences that mean something different than what you think...and are 10% subject to the rulings of the Congress and the SCOTUS. Barring that, we could always amend but I see no reason to do so. As many have said, it's a matter of being reasonable. Given the choice between:

1. Tens of thousand dead....many innocents and children
and
2. Limiting you to 500 rounds instead of 10,000 at a time for purchase (example)......I'd pick #2.


wow that's news to me...since when is the 14th or 15th amendments part of the BILL OF RIGHTS

the fascist are really reaching now
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,084 posts, read 10,644,681 times
Reputation: 9720
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Nobody is wanting to remove anyone's rights. Somehow that message is just not penetrating.
Stop lying. The entire movement to ban firearms is aimed at taking away the right to own firearms. The BS story that "we only want to ban 'assault weapons'" is aimed at convincing the ignorant otherwise. Anyone with more than two brain cells bouncing around in their skull realizes that the ban on assault weapons will, by necessity, lead to further bans. Why? Because banning the AR-15 won't do diddly-squat to stop mass shootings. Mass shootings took place long before the AR-15 became popular, and they will continue to take place with other firearms if the ban on "assault weapons" goes into effect. You don't stop the behavior of psychopaths by taking away the tool that they use to commit their crimes.

If, for some reason, a ban on AR-15s and similar firearms goes into effect, we'll be having this same conversation about whatever firearm is used in the next mass shooting - whether it's a handgun, a shotgun, or another type of rifle. And once again, you'll say "Nobody is wanting to remove anyone's rights." And once again, I'll call you out for lying.
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