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Old 03-30-2018, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,405,382 times
Reputation: 21673

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
David Hogg is basically a white Al Sharpton.
The sooner you see him as the tragedy huckster he is the better off you'll all be...
So what is he 'selling', being a "huckster"? A decrease in gun violence? Is anyone who gets involved for change in America a "huckster"?

You want to know what the real tragedy is with your thinking? A genuine huckster is sitting in the White House, and you, like almost all Trump supporters, remain oblivious to this.

 
Old 03-30-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
38,965 posts, read 27,322,828 times
Reputation: 15906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Indeed.

It's an interesting bit of misinformed thinking that everyone, or a majority of those in the military have extensive training/use of weapons. That's not even true in the Marine Corps. Until I went to Law Enforcement school, which was just shy of 7 years in, I had fired maybe 50 rounds through a pistol, and none of it was for score, just to say I had fired the bullets and was therefore "trained and proficient."

Even in LE school and follow on duty was not that rigorous with actual training with and handling weapons. We did a quarterly pistol "qualification" that required firing 12 rounds from 2x 6 round magazines, and 7 of them had to hit anywhere on a man sized silhouette at 7 yards.

My extensive training was because I kept getting selected/volunteered for specialized reaction/augment security stuff for my base and as part of a rotating group of designated security specialists for other bases who didn't have the Norfolk Naval Base size and number of personnel, so I had to do tactical stuff with rifles, pistols and shotguns, various courses like shipboard and urban CQC, etc. But on a base of tens of thousands of people, we were like 20-25 total bodies attached to 5-6 man Marine detachment who acted as our liaisons with the civilian police and the security detachments at other bases. Point being, we were a very tiny minority.

I could actually see veterans being anti-gun by simple majority. It's a much more controlled environment on most bases than in normal everyday America, so seeing/being near firearms would be even more rare than in normal everyday America.
Yep. agreed. great post!
 
Old 03-30-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,391 posts, read 13,645,751 times
Reputation: 18582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Indeed.

It's an interesting bit of misinformed thinking that everyone, or a majority of those in the military have extensive training/use of weapons. That's not even true in the Marine Corps. Until I went to Law Enforcement school, which was just shy of 7 years in, I had fired maybe 50 rounds through a pistol, and none of it was for score, just to say I had fired the bullets and was therefore "trained and proficient."

Even in LE school and follow on duty was not that rigorous with actual training with and handling weapons. We did a quarterly pistol "qualification" that required firing 12 rounds from 2x 6 round magazines, and 7 of them had to hit anywhere on a man sized silhouette at 7 yards.

My extensive training was because I kept getting selected/volunteered for specialized reaction/augment security stuff for my base and as part of a rotating group of designated security specialists for other bases who didn't have the Norfolk Naval Base size and number of personnel, so I had to do tactical stuff with rifles, pistols and shotguns, various courses like shipboard and urban CQC, etc. But on a base of tens of thousands of people, we were like 20-25 total bodies attached to 5-6 man Marine detachment who acted as our liaisons with the civilian police and the security detachments at other bases. Point being, we were a very tiny minority.

I could actually see veterans being anti-gun by simple majority. It's a much more controlled environment on most bases than in normal everyday America, so seeing/being near firearms would be even more rare than in normal everyday America.
Well, yes, but then again.....

When I was in the service in the late Cold War, I qualified on M-14, shotgun,and and 1911 when I was assigned to ship. We used various ranges semi to quarterly or made a range on the deck.

THEN, when I was a Provost Marshal, my police force (say 18 people) and ASF (say 60), shot the hell out of ammo. There, our weapons were the 1911 and M-16. Many of my people qualified for their marksmanship badges including myself.

So many things about the right time and the right place. There was a Marine barracks to train us on the M-16. We were located at an officer training command so we had many ranges to use and when that command had trained their instructors to train the officer candidates, those instructors were first tested out on my police troops. There was a bunker of ammo that had to be disposed of, so the range master called and, once again, we got my police troops down to the ranges to shoot. Finally, we brought in a Marine FAST to train the ASF and they put them through combat pistol marksmanship, rifle, and night shooting.

NOW, I will say one thing about all that. I get criticize at times because I talk about doing Anti-Terrorism back then and people rake me over the coals because to them, AT is a power point lesson that they rush through to go on liberty.

If that is what this has become, well, no wonder we are so messed up.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 05:24 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,323,098 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Indeed.

It's an interesting bit of misinformed thinking that everyone, or a majority of those in the military have extensive training/use of weapons. That's not even true in the Marine Corps. Until I went to Law Enforcement school, which was just shy of 7 years in, I had fired maybe 50 rounds through a pistol, and none of it was for score, just to say I had fired the bullets and was therefore "trained and proficient."

Even in LE school and follow on duty was not that rigorous with actual training with and handling weapons. We did a quarterly pistol "qualification" that required firing 12 rounds from 2x 6 round magazines, and 7 of them had to hit anywhere on a man sized silhouette at 7 yards.

My extensive training was because I kept getting selected/volunteered for specialized reaction/augment security stuff for my base and as part of a rotating group of designated security specialists for other bases who didn't have the Norfolk Naval Base size and number of personnel, so I had to do tactical stuff with rifles, pistols and shotguns, various courses like shipboard and urban CQC, etc. But on a base of tens of thousands of people, we were like 20-25 total bodies attached to 5-6 man Marine detachment who acted as our liaisons with the civilian police and the security detachments at other bases. Point being, we were a very tiny minority.

I could actually see veterans being anti-gun by simple majority. It's a much more controlled environment on most bases than in normal everyday America, so seeing/being near firearms would be even more rare than in normal everyday America.
7 yards! pft! Rookie!
Extensive training... Put the crosshair on your target, zoom in, take a deep breath and make a fist as you slowly exhale through your nose.
Trained!
Hunters are trained at an early age. For me it was 5. for my daughter it was 6. Dropped.
 
Old 03-31-2018, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
23,391 posts, read 13,645,751 times
Reputation: 18582
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
7 yards! pft! Rookie!
Extensive training... Put the crosshair on your target, zoom in, take a deep breath and make a fist as you slowly exhale through your nose.
Trained!
Hunters are trained at an early age. For me it was 5. for my daughter it was 6. Dropped.
I hope those of your ink are trained on iron sights.

I've been shooting since I was a sophomore in HS and I've never used a scope. NEVER.
 
Old 03-31-2018, 06:09 AM
 
Location: The Woods
18,332 posts, read 26,355,074 times
Reputation: 11328
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
So what is he 'selling', being a "huckster"? A decrease in gun violence? Is anyone who gets involved for change in America a "huckster"?

You want to know what the real tragedy is with your thinking? A genuine huckster is sitting in the White House, and you, like almost all Trump supporters, remain oblivious to this.
The president has stated he thinks a president for life should be tried here someday and yet many of the same people worried about Trump want to gut the second amendment. I find it puzzling. We're at the point now in this country where some people actually think a dictator is a good idea. It may not happen tomorrow or for another decade or two that someone attempts to become one but we have the second amendment for a very good reason.

For all their gun laws states like Maryland, New York, California, etc., still have school shootings and gun violence. We have a violent society and culture, that's the real problem. No gun law is fixing that.
 
Old 03-31-2018, 06:21 AM
 
58,414 posts, read 26,752,393 times
Reputation: 14077
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Wrong. Although the local Dunhams is out of stock at the moment, here is an example:
Shopping

And another rifle I didn't even know Ruger made, I might have to pick one up.
https://shop.jayssportinggoods.com/s...60-%60--288225


And guess what, both of these are more powerful then the standard 5.56 AR
I will REPEAT, They CAN be bought but is very expensive to get a permit for one.

I was NOT talking about the price od the rifle, even though $800 is pretty expensive for mosd people.

I was taking about the high cost to get a permit fora fully auto rifle.
 
Old 03-31-2018, 06:22 AM
 
58,414 posts, read 26,752,393 times
Reputation: 14077
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
The civilian model AK-47 is a semi-auto rifle and is sold in numerous gun stores across the US.
I realize that but am referring to to the AK fully auto rifle.
 
Old 03-31-2018, 06:30 AM
 
58,414 posts, read 26,752,393 times
Reputation: 14077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Likewise, just because someone was in another building near where a tragedy occurred does not mean their opinions automatically carry more weight on the topic of tragedy. David Hogg is no more a moral authority on tragedy than you or I.

Indeed, because cognitive dissonance hurts. It is the rare person who appreciates having their ideas and beliefs challenged, hence the popularity of echo chambers.

I'd agree, but understand the number of veterans who handle a weapon on any regular basis is extremely small as a percent of the people who serve in the military. People tasked with being marksman level proficient with rifles/pistols are even more rare. That's a big reason why veteran opinions on firearms are wildly divergent - the military exposure to weapons among all who serve is also wildly divergent.

I don't know that many veterans outside my own group of friends, but none of us believe removing/limiting rights is a solution to any problem, KBA included.
All the nitpicking about vets and their knowledge of guns.

Why don't we see the SAME about all the people who were NOT vets, have never even held a gun giving the rest of us advise on guns and what should and not banned etc.

I see a HEAP of hypocrisy here.
 
Old 03-31-2018, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
3,789 posts, read 4,009,735 times
Reputation: 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I will tell you why, it is because the poster that posted that nonsense and others have no clue about firearms. lol.
I'm not surprised of the ignorance of most people about firearms, they are just going by what the media says.....for some reason, folks still believe what they see on TV.
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