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Old 03-27-2018, 11:51 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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What is odd is that so far there has been no independent investigation, no proof it was Russia. What I did see on TV was the weird Brit with the crazy hair saying it was probably Russia.
Wouldn't it make sense to prove it before starting such a diplomatic war? That's the way we claim to do things in the West.

Thinking about it logically:
- Why would Russia conduct that attack now, those former spies ceased to be of interest a long time ago
- I doubt that if the Russians wanted to kill those two people, they would have left them alive in the hospital; sounds more like someone who did not really know enough about those substances and screwed up; or even an attempt that was supposed to fail and only injure those people, a false flag operation, maybe by Ukrainians that want to frame Russia

I think Trump will do anything anti-Russia these days just in order to get rid of his alleged ties to Russia. But I doubt that is a very clever thing to do, though.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Pixley
3,519 posts, read 2,820,274 times
Reputation: 1863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
What is odd is that so far there has been no independent investigation, no proof it was Russia. What I did see on TV was the weird Brit with the crazy hair saying it was probably Russia.
Wouldn't it make sense to prove it before starting such a diplomatic war? That's the way we claim to do things in the West.

Thinking about it logically:
- Why would Russia conduct that attack now, those former spies ceased to be of interest a long time ago
- I doubt that if the Russians wanted to kill those two people, they would have left them alive in the hospital; sounds more like someone who did not really know enough about those substances and screwed up; or even an attempt that was supposed to fail and only injure those people, a false flag operation, maybe by Ukrainians that want to frame Russia

I think Trump will do anything anti-Russia these days just in order to get rid of his alleged ties to Russia. But I doubt that is a very clever thing to do, though.
The poison used in the attempt was:

"Novichok, a military-grade nerve agent developed by Soviet scientists for use on NATO troops.

The identification of Novichok as the weapon has become the linchpin of the British case for Russia’s culpability in the poisoning. Though one of the scientists who developed the nerve agent, Vil Mirzayanov, published its chemical structure and now lives in the United States, it is extremely dangerous to manufacture. He said in an interview that the only laboratories known to have fine-tuned the process were in Russia and parts of the former Soviet Union."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/w...poisoning.html

Didn't you think it was odder that a reporter for Russia’s main state-controlled media television channels warned so-called traitors Wednesday not to move to the United Kingdom - "I don't wish death on anyone, but for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career," he said. "The profession of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world.”

Russian state-controlled media newscaster warns traitors not to move to UK | Fox News
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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Was that before the attack?
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:15 PM
 
1,704 posts, read 748,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
Donald Trump has never met Putin. You know that, right?
Admittedly, Trump assured the media in November of 2013, at the Miss Universe Pageant held in Moscow, that he did indeed have a "relationship" with Vladimir Putin. That should not be a surprise, as both Putin and Trump are quite friendly with Russian Oligarchs (organized crime leaders of Russia), and both are financially affiliated with Oligarch controlled bsnks and lending institutions. Besides, Trump has travelled extensively to Russia and has many wealthy friends in Russia.

Additionally, both met and were photographed together looking quite chummy, at the G-20 summit meeting in July of 2017...

So yes! They're quite intimate as friends! You might even say that they're BFF's!
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:16 PM
 
Location: in a pond with the other human scum
2,361 posts, read 2,535,745 times
Reputation: 2803
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeliner View Post
It's not so much the IRB, as it is the GPO...

GENERAL PUBLIC OPINION!
In a certain troll farm in St. Petersburg, perhaps.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:52 PM
 
Location: El paso,tx
4,515 posts, read 2,520,191 times
Reputation: 8200
I'm waiting for the lib media to say "Trump sends 60 Russian diplomats on overseas vacation!!! Impeach now!!!"
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:54 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,434,021 times
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Moscow just might as well close down the US embassy. Turn it into a warehouse.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:04 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,434,021 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redd Jedd View Post
The poison used in the attempt was:

"Novichok, a military-grade nerve agent developed by Soviet scientists for use on NATO troops.

The identification of Novichok as the weapon has become the linchpin of the British case for Russia’s culpability in the poisoning. Though one of the scientists who developed the nerve agent, Vil Mirzayanov, published its chemical structure and now lives in the United States, it is extremely dangerous to manufacture. He said in an interview that the only laboratories known to have fine-tuned the process were in Russia and parts of the former Soviet Union."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/18/w...poisoning.html

Didn't you think it was odder that a reporter for Russia’s main state-controlled media television channels warned so-called traitors Wednesday not to move to the United Kingdom - "I don't wish death on anyone, but for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career," he said. "The profession of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world.”

Russian state-controlled media newscaster warns traitors not to move to UK | Fox News
Actually it's good advice. I think it's realistic and practical and in no way odd. The bad thing about putting yourself in that situation is you become a tool. I know what I do with a tool that's no longer of use to me. Nemtsov was worth more to the cause dead on that bridge by the Kremlin than he was alive.

I suspect there's more affot here than we know.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:23 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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Seems that those Russian TV remarks came after the attack, in other words, they were not a cryptic announcement, but merely general observations made afterwards since there already was a similar case about a decade ago. Back then it was a British investigation that came to the conclusion that it probably Russia was responsible (i.e. no independent investigation, nor certainty).

I am increasingly convinced that it was not Russia in this case.
One reason is the soccer world cup due to start soon. Russia can't be interested in a conflict right before that expensive event.
Another reason is that I have read that experts from several Western countries were in what used to be in former Soviet countries and helped Russia destroy those toxic substances there. They had full access to the complete documentation and the stuff itself. In other words, it is simply not correct that Russia is the only country with access to those substances developed in the SU.

On one site it said that it could actually be Russian anti-Kremlin groups in the West trying to frame the Kremlin. After all, despite Putin's popularity there are also fierce opponents, some of them living abroad.

It is no secret that nuclear material has also disappeared from several former Soviet countries. Nobody knows where it ended up.
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:25 AM
 
11,404 posts, read 4,081,658 times
Reputation: 7852
Credit to Donald Trump for making this decision to expel Russian diplomats, even though he was under incredible pressure internationally to do so.
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