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Old 04-27-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: crafton pa
979 posts, read 353,091 times
Reputation: 1194

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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Why not quote the numbers so we citizens can determine what the situation is? We are all human...and, c'mon, what are the chances that virtually ALL police shooting are justified?

Here are the quickies I can find. Over a 12+ year period about 12,000 Police Shootings....

80 were brought up on charges. Less than 35% of those, or 25+- were convicted.

So, you are really going to claim that only 25 out of 12,000 Police shootings involve

Note - there is no exact data, but any way you look at it Police are not being held to a fair standard IMHO:
How Many Americans Do the Cops Kill Each Year?

Putting it another way, in a year and 1,000 Americans shot by cops, 2 Cops are convicted.

So, either Cops are the Lord God and attain a level of perfection unknown on the face of the earth...or, they are protected by "the system". I vote for the later.
The LAW says that a person accused of a crime is innocent of that crime unless proven guilty beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt. That applies to a cop following a shooting such as this, just as it does for ANYONE accused of any other crime. I am certainly not maintaining that all these shootings are justified; I am also not maintaining that none or even a majority are not justified. I simply don't know; I am not privy to the evidence that was presented before the juries in these cases.

What I do know is that we live in a civilized society. One feature of such a society is that we don't just form lynch mobs when we THINK someone is guilty of a crime; we give such people the right to a trial. If you disagree with the court verdicts, fine; it's your right to hold any opinion you feel justified. That does not imply, though, that justice was not served. We as a society have agreed that justice entails a fair and impartial trial of a criminal in front of a jury of his/her peers, and that guilt must be established by the prosecution, not just assumed. You may not like the result, but the process is the inherent definition of justice, not a particular result. I have no reason to believe that the process was not followed in any of these cases.


The problem is that it is difficult to prove guilt in such cases. That doesn't and shouldn't mean, though, that we change our justice system. That system is in place to protect everyone's rights. Is it perfect? Of course not. What the heck is perfect in this world?
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Old 04-27-2018, 08:40 AM
 
Location: crafton pa
979 posts, read 353,091 times
Reputation: 1194
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Conservatives didn’t use that rationale when OJ was found innocent.

And no, we don’t like the result because the result was wrong just like in the OJ case. Moreover, in the days after the Castile shooting, conservatives went on a witch hunt concerning Castile...looking for ANYTHING he may have ever done since kindergarten. Then they spread rumors that he was a Crip. Then they said that he was throwing gang signs in a photo. Conservatives ate it up.

When all of that proved to be bunk, then they said that he wasn’t a law abiding gun permit holder because he smokes weed.

At every turn, conservatives made it quite clear that they wanted the cop to get off no matter what...even IF the shooting was unjustified.
So? Who says I'm a conservative? I am an independent, admittedly one who's right of center, but I don't feel obligated to believe anything just because that's what conservatives (or what liberals) believe. BTW, I had NO problem with the OJ verdict. It's probably true that OJ killed his wife and her friend. It's also true that the prosecution in that case did a poor job and failed to prove OJ's guilt beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt. Our justice system requires not just "I think he did it", but proof beyond a reasonable doubt, so no problem with OJ walking.

And I do agree with you on one point, whatever Castile was doing prior to the encounter has nothing to do with whether the shooting was justified. He could have raped babies, but if he surrenders peacefully to police, there is no justification for shooting him. I don't really claim knowledge of the particulars of this case, so I defer to your opinion on whether the shooting was justified. Again, though, whether the shooting was justified and whether the prosecution in the case proved that the cop acted wrongly are two very different questions, just as whether OJ killed two people and whether the prosecution proved that OJ killed two people are separate questions.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
20,270 posts, read 9,898,642 times
Reputation: 19923
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
I freely admit to not following the case. I was the reports when it happened, followed it in passing until the media decided it wasn't priority number one, and went on with life.

My own opinion on marijuana is that it shouldn't even be on the list of controlled substances, but my opinion isn't the law. The law states that you can't carry a firearm while being intoxicated or possessing a controlled substance.

The only reason I posted about it is because DD keeps trying to use the Castile case as proof that the NRA is racist because they didn't throw a fit over a "law-abiding" black gun owner being shot by the police - but Castile wasn't law-abiding.

Okay, what about Mark Hughes who was shot in TX? TEXAS, no less, and the NRA didn't come out with any statement for him either. And if there was ever a case where they should have - this was it.

The things the NRA has done involving black folks, seem to be quietly done behind the scenes. Why is that?
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:07 AM
 
9,195 posts, read 4,236,750 times
Reputation: 10989
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post

I don't know why your focus is on Castile instead of where it should be - on bad, untrained officers. They do, after all, impact us all.
That is sadly true. Whats even worse is that people put up with inferior cops, paramedics, etc. because of affirmative action hiring policies, but do nothing about it.
However I'd bet those same ambivalent people would be up in arms if their favorite sports team were required to have X amount of various races and genders, instead of the best person for the job.


`
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
20,270 posts, read 9,898,642 times
Reputation: 19923
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1

I don't know why your focus is on Castile instead of where it should be - on bad, untrained officers. They do, after all, impact us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
That is sadly true. Whats even worse is that people put up with inferior cops, paramedics, etc. because of affirmative action hiring policies, but do nothing about it.
However I'd bet those same ambivalent people would be up in arms if their favorite sports team were required to have X amount of various races and genders, instead of the best person for the job.

Odd point to bring up since most of the cops murdering innocent people are white males.
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:22 AM
 
Location: My House
34,516 posts, read 28,801,967 times
Reputation: 25485
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
Castille was practicing his 2nd Amendment right to bear arm. Legally.

The NRA, alt right, mainstream conservatives, and everybody else on the right remained silent.

Did the 2nd Amendment not apply to him?
This is a rhetorical question, yes?
__________________
When in doubt, check it out: FAQ
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Old 04-27-2018, 11:26 AM
 
26,195 posts, read 18,890,991 times
Reputation: 14041
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
No weed was found in the car, and cops always smell weed even when there isnít weed within a galaxy of a vehicle.

Weed played no part. It was just an excuse to let a murderer walk.
false

Quote:
During her cross-examination, Reynolds testified that she and Castile regularly smoked marijuana and that she had smoked it on the day of the shooting. She also said they had marijuana in the car when they got pulled over, but that it was under her seat. Authorities found it inside a closed plastic bag tucked inside a jar on top of her seat. The jarís lid was off.
https://www.twincities.com/2017/06/1...said-at-trial/
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Old 04-28-2018, 05:48 AM
 
36,471 posts, read 15,973,573 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Its simple...the NRA is an organization that works on behalf of white gun owners exclusively. Black gun owners should avoid fooling themselves.

African Americans should form their own gun rights organizations instead of joining the NRA. After the Castile shooting, Iíve spread the word the best that I can to other gun owning African Americans to not join the NRA. And Iíll be doing that for as long as I live.
STOP THE PRESSES, desert posted playing the RACE card!
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Old 04-28-2018, 05:55 AM
 
36,471 posts, read 15,973,573 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
So. Just means that I have more work to do.

You can believe what you want, but black folks aren’t knocking down the door trying to join the NRA. Most of us know what they stand for.


No, they don’t care about the color of the people that pays for memberships.

They do care about which race of gun owners they’ll defend though. They care about that a lot.
"Most of us know what they stand for."

Here you go again ACTING like you KNOW what others think.

So, let me ask, out of the MILLIONS of blacks in America, how MANY have you ACTUALLY asked their opinion on this?

Funny I don't recall you being given the "job"of speaking for the rest if the black population.

When did that happen?

Was it aired in TV? I must have missed t.

Hint, YOU are NOT as revered by the black community as you THINK YOU ARE.

Hell most of them never heard of you, much less gave you permission to speak from them.

And definitely NOT ON HERE.
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Old 04-28-2018, 06:00 AM
 
36,471 posts, read 15,973,573 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Conservatives didnít use that rationale when OJ was found innocent.

And no, we donít like the result because the result was wrong just like in the OJ case. Moreover, in the days after the Castile shooting, conservatives went on a witch hunt concerning Castile...looking for ANYTHING he may have ever done since kindergarten. Then they spread rumors that he was a Crip. Then they said that he was throwing gang signs in a photo. Conservatives ate it up.

When all of that proved to be bunk, then they said that he wasnít a law abiding gun permit holder because he smokes weed.

At every turn, conservatives made it quite clear that they wanted the cop to get off no matter what...even IF the shooting was unjustified.
"At every turn, conservatives made it quite clear that they wanted the cop to get off no matter what...even IF the shooting was unjustified"

You are so full of B.S. I can smell it there!
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