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Old 03-30-2018, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
7,954 posts, read 3,111,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post

Also, it's time to dispense with the simplistic view that blacks are a monolithic Democrat voting bloc. That may be true in presidential elections, but things get more complicated at the state and local level. Southern blacks in particular have made it clear that candidates must earn their votes. Republican congressional and gubernatorial candidates in the south, particularly incumbents, often win 30 to 40% of the black vote. The last time Mike Huckabee ran for governor of Arkansas, he won nearly half the state's black vote.

Although there are local exceptions as you note for the most part black voters act like a monolithic voting block. So long as they act like one they will be treated like one. If they can't vote for republicans maybe some can vote for independents or greens or libertarians. Show our government that their votes aren't already baked in to the cake and able to be taken for granted, and do it on a wide scale.

 
Old 03-30-2018, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Brackenwood
3,256 posts, read 1,297,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
Although there are local exceptions as you note for the most part black voters act like a monolithic voting block. So long as they act like one they will be treated like one. If they can't vote for republicans maybe some can vote for independents or greens or libertarians. Show our government that their votes aren't already baked in to the cake and able to be taken for granted, and do it on a wide scale.
Thank you for posting this. It's a far more candid articulation of fringe-conservative intransigence than any hypothetical scenario I could have come up with.

Black voters have exactly zero obligation to vote "independents or greens or libertarians," or do anything else to ingratiate themselves to the Republican party. NO voter regardless of their demographic profile owes any party or candidate their vote. The burden is on the party or candidate to earn that vote.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,917 posts, read 3,600,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Thank you for posting this. It's a far more candid articulation of fringe-conservative intransigence than any hypothetical scenario I could have come up with.

Black voters have exactly zero obligation to vote "independents or greens or libertarians," or do anything else to ingratiate themselves to the Republican party. NO voter regardless of their demographic profile owes any party or candidate their vote. The burden is on the party or candidate to earn that vote.
Can't rep you again right now.

I would add one more thing to this outstanding post: it is the right of the voter - or group of voters - to decide if that vote has been earned. It is not the place of others to dictate that.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 06:36 AM
 
19,270 posts, read 17,404,861 times
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And then on the other end of the spectrum, there are those who are still hopelessly bamboozled and seem to have no chance of ever of waking up. I was listening to " The Black Turkey" on Sirius Urban Channel yesterday morning. He was off on a racist rant spoon feeding the disinformed what he does best, trying to keep them paranoid and in the dark. An elderly caller was talking about how the white man had failed to fool his people. I thought that poor old guy is so fooled he doesn't know if its night or day or if the sky is up or the ground is down. Guys like the host get paid to BS people like him and to keep them ignorant to what they could do to really make progress. Anything to keep them voting straight ticket but guess what... they're already being displaced by latino voters and now a push for teenagers. The poor old guy will be kicked to the curb and blame the wrong people for doing it.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 07:16 AM
 
7,059 posts, read 1,567,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
Although there are local exceptions as you note for the most part black voters act like a monolithic voting block. So long as they act like one they will be treated like one. If they can't vote for republicans maybe some can vote for independents or greens or libertarians. Show our government that their votes aren't already baked in to the cake and able to be taken for granted, and do it on a wide scale.
I completely agree with this post.

The black vote, for the most part, goes democrat. By doing so, they kind of fall through the cracks because the bulk of the black vote is already determined. That causes two things:

1) Democrats don't really do a whole lot to specifically help the black community. Sure, every democratic presidential nominee goes to a black church during the campaign and gives a speech, pretending to care about Black America. But ultimately, what did former POTUSes Obama and Clinton do specifically for black people that helped them? Democrats don't need to do anything to help the black community because they get their vote anyway.

2) Republicans don't even really bother to campaign for the black vote at all, because less than 10% of blacks vote GOP. Which means most of the black community does not support them, so they could care less honestly. Since I slammed the democrats for not caring about passing legislation that helps black people in any way, I'll do the same for republicans. What have they done recently, Trump or George W, to help Black America?

Until they start to make their voices heard at the booths and voting for third party candidates, Ds and Rs will never do anything to help them. In my opinion, which I'm happy being way off.

Last edited by NeutralParty; 03-30-2018 at 07:57 AM..
 
Old 03-30-2018, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
7,954 posts, read 3,111,604 times
Reputation: 14396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Thank you for posting this. It's a far more candid articulation of fringe-conservative intransigence than any hypothetical scenario I could have come up with.

Black voters have exactly zero obligation to vote "independents or greens or libertarians," or do anything else to ingratiate themselves to the Republican party. NO voter regardless of their demographic profile owes any party or candidate their vote. The burden is on the party or candidate to earn that vote.
They have no obligation to do anything but they also have no right to be treated as anything other than a monolithic voting block by both parties, if they choose to vote as one. If they feel being taken for granted is in their best interests, they can keep voting the way they do.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 09:10 AM
 
6,315 posts, read 3,321,179 times
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The difference for me is that "most" in the democrat party always finds ways to separate Blacks from the rest of us -- they are poor victims who need special programs, special legs up, don't have to follow the same laws or rules because they were so mistreated - can get away with stuff others can't. It's been called the bigotry of low expectations. I really saw it when I taught high school.

While "most" republicans don't see blacks as this separated block of people -- they see Americans and have the same expectations for blacks as everyone else.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 09:47 AM
 
3,339 posts, read 4,308,059 times
Reputation: 2205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bully View Post
I don't know about courageous, but 90-95% of blacks vote for democrats, so no matter what you call yourselves, black conservatives are rather rare. Note I'm not saying 90-05% of blacks don't vote for republicans, they are voting for democrats. That extremely high rate is also why blacks are often thought of as a monolithic voting block, by dems and reps alike.
You seem to be caught up on party voting. Plenty of conservative Blacks (and other minorities) vote D simply because of issues of inclusion. They might be veterans, financially conservative, socially conservative, church goers and small business owners which are all more skewed towards voting R. But when the rhetoric heats up, they see all of 2 prominent AAers in the Republican Party and some of the more successful R politicians make racially charged comments they go running back to the Democratic Party in the voting booth.


It is the equivalent of a Catholic union family voting R for abortion restrictions and abortion restrictions alone. They see one issue that overrides all others.


There have been plenty of R politicians who did perfectly well among AA voters. It takes a real dud to get stuck below 10%. What was really interesting is that in 2016 the numbers of AA voters staying home or voting third party are what tipped those 3 final rustbelt states to Trump.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,196 posts, read 33,593,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
We did just have a black president who was a Democrat that did virtually nothing for the black people that could have used some assistance.

Basically none of the political parties are helping the lower income blacks... or really, any of the lower income class. But it's not their primary job. People have to help themselves first before asking others to help.
You cannot tax the poverty that keep you in office.
 
Old 03-30-2018, 01:38 PM
 
15,309 posts, read 7,821,308 times
Reputation: 7932
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
I completely agree with this post.

The black vote, for the most part, goes democrat. By doing so, they kind of fall through the cracks because the bulk of the black vote is already determined. That causes two things:

1) Democrats don't really do a whole lot to specifically help the black community. Sure, every democratic presidential nominee goes to a black church during the campaign and gives a speech, pretending to care about Black America. But ultimately, what did former POTUSes Obama and Clinton do specifically for black people that helped them? Democrats don't need to do anything to help the black community because they get their vote anyway.

2) Republicans don't even really bother to campaign for the black vote at all, because less than 10% of blacks vote GOP. Which means most of the black community does not support them, so they could care less honestly. Since I slammed the democrats for not caring about passing legislation that helps black people in any way, I'll do the same for republicans. What have they done recently, Trump or George W, to help Black America?

Until they start to make their voices heard at the booths and voting for third party candidates, Ds and Rs will never do anything to help them. In my opinion, which I'm happy being way off.
Wanted to address the bold.

I noted earlier that many of you overlook the fact that a significant amount of Democrats in urban areas are black themselves.

Most political wheeling and dealing take place at the local level. Local black politicians in most urban areas are very receptive to the pressures of the black voters who vote Democrat primarily because they can easily be primaried and replaced. The local politicians are usually the person who welcomes a national politician like Obama or Clinton. When they welcome them there is wheeling and dealing going on, especially in regards to funding for programs/initiatives in that particular district.

When you all focus on "black people vote for Democrats and Democrats do nothing for black people" it is odd to me because you are speaking of other black people for the most part in regards to "Democrats" and those local elected officials do at least the minimum of what they need to do in regards to programming and policy for their constituents to stay in office.

A politician that comes to mind for me is Marion Berry. He smoked cracked on tape and got (still gets) a lot of flack from conservatives for the fact that black DCers voted him back in office. You all overlook the fact that Marion Berry fought police brutality in DC he also was a huge supporter of the black business community and gave out a lot of jobs and contracts to black people who had been shut out of those jobs and opportunities prior to him becoming mayor.

All politicians usually have some sort of corruption in their midst IMO no matter the party or the race of the individual, but to think that Democrats, especially black Democrats do "nothing" for black people is silly.

As I noted, oftentimes you all focus on social services and "welfare" for black people when that is not a huge issue that is wanted by black Americans. You all think we want something that honestly we don't want to any wide degree. Only one that is important IMO to many black people that is associated with social welfare is healthcare. I know for a fact that people in my own family started looking more seriously towards Ohio's GOP after Kasich took the ACA Medicaid expansion. I had relatives in their 50s who'd lost jobs due to the financial downturn and who were too young for retirement and Medicare and who had no health insurance at all until Kasich passed that expansion. Nearly all of them voted for him in the next election. One of my aunts said that he was the only Republican she could remember that was actually "compassionate" like they try to say they are because he actually did something that helped all Ohioans who were in a similar situation as herself - too rich for Medicaid, too young for Medicare, and uninsured with some minor health issues that if left untreated could become serious issues.

All the GOP has to do is focus on healthcare and businesses (especially minority business opportunities in government and entrepreneurship programs) to get more than 10% of the black vote. But they are too silly to see these are things of importance for black Americans. The black Democrats know better because they are black and know we aren't focused on "welfare."

I mentioned a good friend of mine is a black Democrat who is an elected state official in another state. She does not focus on welfare or any specific thing that the GOP seems to believe that black people want. She has delivered on requiring public projects near her constituents, which are being constructed, to offer jobs to people who live in the district where said construction is taking place and vending/business opportunities to residents when the venue fits the publically funded construction development project. She has worked on education issues in regards to safety of students, funding, transportation, and after school programs for neighborhood schools. She has worked on safety issues in regards to blight in poor neighborhoods, crime, and bettering the relationship between her constituents and the police by encouraging the PD to use "community policing" and get to know the constituents so that they can help the police to solve crimes without fear that police will in turn harrass them because they live in a predominantly black neighborhood.

These are all things that black Democrats deliver to black people that you all don't focus on. However, I'll note even with Obama many of the funding initiatives he provided to Americans in general, especially HARP and mortgage assistance, those things were asked for by black people and ended up helping all Americans, including black people. The education program "Race to the Top" was something that allowed more local control in education, something that black people wanted and received. So the idea that Democrats do "nothing" is laughable to a lot of black Americans. Note I'm not a Democrat and as I state a lot, I don't particularly like the Democratic party but to think they do nothing is not true and they especially offer and deliver on issues of concern for their constituents at the local and state level or they won't stay in office.


I'll also note that many of the black conservatives I know who have remained stalwart supporters of the Republican party do so because they also feel that the GOP follows through and delivers on the local level for particular issues of concern. Both black conservatives and Democrats in GA back in 2008-2010 were for passing a state law in GA that would require state contractors to use e-verify for all workers on public projects. They felt that this would curb the flow of illegal immigrants into the state who took away jobs from black construction workers in particular and where black children were being pushed to the side in black neighborhoods by the children of those illegal immigrants being in their schools. Note that the black people weren't being hired quite often this was due to the racism of business owners who fell that black people aren't as "hard working" as Hispanics when in actuality it was because a black person is not going to work for $5 an hour doing construction on a public project when they are supposed to get paid $20 an hour. Will also note that black Democrats and black people in general have been the driving forces behind voucher programs in urban areas and behind the charter school/school choice movement. If black Democrats don't get behind their constituents on these issues, they will be voted out so they fall in line with what the black people want.
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