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Old 04-04-2018, 06:45 AM
Location: Colorado Springs
4,376 posts, read 1,815,052 times
Reputation: 3301


Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And the Liberal solution is to waste valuable money, time and resources in a losing effort.

Thanks for being honest about your beliefs. The reason I am not a conservative is I don't have a burning hatred of the poor.
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:35 AM
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,085 posts, read 13,614,329 times
Reputation: 22147
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That is not what the Supreme Court said.
If you had bothered to read and understand O'Connor v. Donaldson 422 US 563 (1975), what the Supreme Court actually said is:

"Now, the purpose of involuntary hospitalization is treatment, and not mere custodial care or punishment if a patient is not a danger to himself or others. Without such treatment, there is no justification from a constitutional standpoint for continued confinement unless you should also find that [Donaldson] was dangerous to either himself or others."

So long as you provide treatment, you can confine people who are not a danger to themselves or others.
The evidence showed that Donaldson's confinement was a simple regime of enforced custodial care, not a program designed to alleviate or cure his supposed illness. Numerous witnesses, including one of O'Connor's codefendants, testified that Donaldson had received nothing but custodial care while at the hospital. O'Connor described Donaldson's treatment as "milieu therapy." But witnesses from the hospital staff conceded that, in the context of this case, "milieu therapy" was a euphemism for confinement in the "milieu" of a mental hospital.
Donaldson was not provided with any treatment whatsoever.
This thread is about the "homeless". Any person who loses their home and job due to substance abuse is clearly both an incompetent substance abuser and incompetent to play the game of Life.
If you intend to hide behind a Supreme Court ruling you don't even understand, then you'll never resolve the problem of homelessness, but you will waste lots of money, time and resources attempting to win a game that you cannot win.
I understand Donaldson. Maybe you missed this part of the decision:

"Where "treatment" is the sole asserted ground for depriving a person of liberty, it is plainly unacceptable to suggest that the courts are powerless to determine whether the asserted ground is present. See Jackson v. Indiana, 406 U.S. 715 . Neither party objected to the jury instruction defining treatment. There is, accordingly, no occasion in this case to decide whether the provision of treatment, standing alone, can ever constitutionally justify involuntary confinement or, if it can, how much or what kind of treatment would suffice for that purpose. In its present posture this case involves not involuntary treatment but simply involuntary custodial confinement."

In other words, you can't keep someone confined simply by providing treatment because The Court, held that the finding of "mental illness" alone is not justification for continued confinement in a mental institution. Without the necessary prerequisite of "dangerousness", a mentally ill person has the same right as a physically ill person to decide whether he wishes to remain hospitalized or be released from a hospital.

Consider this, if a person attempts suicide they can be confined because they pose an immediate danger to themself. Whether they are treated or not, if in the future they no longer meet the criteria of "dangerousness" you can't confine them just in case they might become suicidal at some time in the future.
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