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Old 04-17-2018, 11:56 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
Reputation: 15007

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On Tax Day, don't forget that taxes are legalized theft/robbery.


What bunk.

We want, and need, some level of government, since some people will try to violate our rights and government is the only way to dispassionately stop them and redress what they did. So it makes perfect sense to pay tax money, so the government can do what we want. We even wrote out a list of things we want the Fed govt to do... called the U.S. Constitution. When government does those things, it is not "theft" in the slightest. It's doing what we told I to do. To expect it to do those things for free, is absurd.

But when the govt starts taking the tax money we give it, and starts using it to do things we DIDN'T give it authority to do, that's legalized theft.

Calling ALL taxes "theft", is like calling all of a bank's transactions "theft" because robbers sometimes show up and knock it over.

Is the OP trying to give us the most perfect example possible, of "painting with too broad a brush"? He's succeeding.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:01 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,142,059 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
This is a sad day for all taxpayers. For everyone else, they don't give a crap....because they are the ones getting a free ride or getting money stolen from others.

But if you DO pay taxes, then this is the day when you realize exactly much the government is stealing from you, or how much they stole, or how much more they will steal.
Oh, gee, I'm sorry that you live in a country where the government steals from you.

Me, I'm lucky to live in America, which has a relatively low tax rate, and although I know that much of my tax money is inevitably wasted, still, much of it is spent on maintaining roads, funding education, monitoring health problems, feeding poor children, and a wide range of worthwhile things.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Gaston, South Carolina
15,713 posts, read 9,523,000 times
Reputation: 17617
Oh, I don't know. I prefer my roads paved
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,119,604 times
Reputation: 1747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
We want, and need, some level of government, since some people will try to violate our rights and government is the only way to dispassionately stop them and redress what they did. So it makes perfect sense to pay tax money, so the government can do what we want. We even wrote out a list of things we want the Fed govt to do... called the U.S. Constitution. When government does those things, it is not "theft" in the slightest. It's doing what we told I to do. To expect it to do those things for free, is absurd.
Government doesn't protect our rights; the very nature of the State is to take away our rights.

Government shouldn't do anything at all, since the very existence of the State is a fiction.

Quote:
But when the govt starts taking the tax money we give it, and starts using it to do things we DIDN'T give it authority to do, that's legalized theft.

Calling ALL taxes "theft", is like calling all of a bank's transactions "theft" because robbers sometimes show up and knock it over.
20% of every tax dollar you're forced to pay is used to blow people up in undeclared wars and to station troops all over the world like they're Team America World Police. The average person works 3 weeks a year just to pay for death and funerals.

Taxation IS robbery. If you refuse to pay, armed goons come to your door to arrest you. If you resist said armed goons, you are killed. Sounds like a bank robber to me.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:22 PM
 
6,617 posts, read 5,009,834 times
Reputation: 3689
I am a liberal but 30k in taxes, not capital gains or anything just income, its a bit much.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:35 PM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,932,646 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
I was unaware that Federal tax monies paid for all the roads and infrastructure in my town. (or any town). In fact, since FedGov paid for all that stuff, (thank you for informing me), I am going to print out this email and take it down with me to the next City Council meeting so I can get a refund on the local taxes I paid that ostensibly were for all that stuff, like the $1K/year in bond payments for local schools, the library, the parks and all that other capex. In fact, I am owed roughly $12K in taxes added onto my local property tax bill just for sewer, since FedGov actually paid for all that.

Thanks...oh, can you please DM me your real name and phone number? I don't think the City Council will be satisfied just hearing from "CraigCreek".
Not local roads, but interstate highways were built by the federal govt. If you own a business, or work for a business, chances are most of that businesses goods are moved on interstate highways, not to mention the employees commuting to work.

If your business has clients that come to visit, or if you visit them, you no doubt do so on an airplane that flies out of a federally built airport, using air traffic control system and GPS that were all developed by the Fed govt. Thanks to FAA we can fly in relative safety.

You can go about your business in safety because of our military, the FBI, our justice system. Even our much-maligned system of regulations help to make commerce move smoothly. I could go on and on.

Essentially, our society is like a big club. If you want to be part of the club, and enjoy the benefits of membership, you have to pay the dues. If you don't like it, you can join a different club. I hear they have one in Mexico.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
5,464 posts, read 5,710,417 times
Reputation: 6098
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Would you agree that it's necessary for ALL 1040 filers to pay federal income tax? No more 0% effective federal income tax rates for 47% of 1040 filers?

Let's recap...

Here's who pays now, on average for each income group, in relation to their share of the income:

Chart: Income Share vs. Federal Income Tax Share, By Income Level

Everyone look in the mirror and admit to yourself if you're a net contributor, or a net taker. (Hint: The bottom 95% are net takers. They're NOT pulling their weight.)

And lest anyone thinks that's an anomaly and the REALLY high income earners pay far less than that, here's the actual IRS data on the percentage of the total income they earn vs. the percentage of the federal income tax revenue they pay.

Top 0.1%, minimum income: $2.22 million

Earn 10.19% of the total income

But pay 19.5% of the total federal income tax revenue
Weird chart. Who cares what top 1% of earners pay in income tax? They pay 0% of income tax on most of their gains not listed on the chart, since those earnings fall under other categories like cap. gains, not covered by income tax.
If the bar was "share of all taxes paid" instead of "share of income taxes paid" then we would have apples to apples.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:56 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
Not local roads, but interstate highways were built by the federal govt. If you own a business, or work for a business, chances are most of that businesses goods are moved on interstate highways, not to mention the employees commuting to work.

If your business has clients that come to visit, or if you visit them, you no doubt do so on an airplane that flies out of a federally built airport, using air traffic control system and GPS that were all developed by the Fed govt. Thanks to FAA we can fly in relative safety.

You can go about your business in safety because of our military, the FBI, our justice system. Even our much-maligned system of regulations help to make commerce move smoothly. I could go on and on.

Essentially, our society is like a big club. If you want to be part of the club, and enjoy the benefits of membership, you have to pay the dues.
Again, 47% of all 1040 filers pay no federal income tax whatsoever. It's a complete lie that everyone has to pay.

Quote:
If you don't like it, you can join a different club. I hear they have one in Mexico.
Does that mean we can kick the 47% of all 1040 filers who pay no federal income tax whatsoever out of the country?
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:01 PM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,932,646 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Would you agree that it's necessary for ALL 1040 filers to pay federal income tax? No more 0% effective federal income tax rates for 47% of 1040 filers?

Let's recap...

Here's who pays now, on average for each income group, in relation to their share of the income:

Chart: Income Share vs. Federal Income Tax Share, By Income Level

Everyone look in the mirror and admit to yourself if you're a net contributor, or a net taker. (Hint: The bottom 95% are net takers. They're NOT pulling their weight.)

And lest anyone thinks that's an anomaly and the REALLY high income earners pay far less than that, here's the actual IRS data on the percentage of the total income they earn vs. the percentage of the federal income tax revenue they pay.

Top 0.1%, minimum income: $2.22 million

Earn 10.19% of the total income

But pay 19.5% of the total federal income tax revenue

Very similar to the the differential between what the top 1% (minimum income: $481,000) earns and what they pay.

When the 2018 data is released, we'll see if the disproportion remains, or dwindled substantially, thereby creating a more fair taxation system.
A couple of points:

1. We have what's known as a progressive income tax system. I see from your link that the wealthiest 1% pay about 2x their share (20% of income but 39% of taxes). That does not seem like an unreasonable disparity to me. These people have benefited greatly from our societal infrastructure.

2. Your data is only for income tax. Other forms of taxation are often regressive. For example, social security tax, medicare tax, sales tax, personal property tax and excise taxes. Poor and middle class pay more for these as a percentage of their income than do the wealthy.

3. Many of the people in your bottom 50% category may be retired, disabled or unemployed. If they were forced to pay "their fair share" - an amount equivalent to their income - that would increase total revenue by 8%. Not a big deal.
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Old 04-17-2018, 02:04 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
Weird chart. Who cares what top 1% of earners pay in income tax? They pay 0% of income tax on most of their gains not listed on the chart, since those earnings fall under other categories like cap. gains, not covered by income tax.
Where'd you hear that garbage?

Look at line 7 through 22 on the 1040, particularly lines 8 a and b, 9 a and b, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17, under the subheading: INCOME:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf

Honestly, who tells you all that crap, and WHY on earth do you believe it?
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