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Old 05-06-2018, 11:00 AM
 
3,129 posts, read 1,331,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Amsterdam classifies drugs as hard and soft. Soft drugs are tolerated. Not so much for hard drugs.
Amsterdam has plenty of safe injection sites where addicts can inject heroin purchased in the black market. The primary purpose of such sites is to give addicts a discrete and safe place to inject and dispose of needles and the prevention of HIV.
Correct. I know you already know this, but for the benefit of the other readers it is called "Harm Reduction", and it works.

But it isn't a means to fix the problem. It is a stop-gap measure to reduce the harm caused by prohibition until the extremely slow-moving governments of the world gets the laws changed. That has to start with the US, because any country who flagrantly violates international treaty by actually legalizing drugs risks sanctions and other negative actions from the USA.

That's why it's still going to be a while before real progress is made. The US government is too mired in corruption to do the right thing.

Last edited by Raddo; 05-06-2018 at 11:15 AM.. Reason: Government Corruption
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,725,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
As a recovering addict with 32 years clean and sober, I can tell you with certainty that an addict will not seek treatment until he or she hits bottom. The bottom is different for different people. In my case, I had a son who was five days old, and I knew after a long morning that I would never live to see him grow up unless I did something about my addictions (I was cross-addicted to alcohol and pills). It was not a matter of it being "easier". There is a stigma attached to addiction that prevents a lot of people from seeking help.

No one ever decided to become an addict. It simply happens, usually as a result of trying something new in a gathering of friends. Once you are addicted, you have no choice except to use or experience the agony that comes when your system runs out of the drug. Any cigarette smoker can tell you how difficult it is to quit, the difference being that cigarettes are legal and available everywhere. If you are addicted to a different substance than the legal ones available, the cravings and the pain of withdrawal are every bit as compelling.
Thank you for sharing your first hand experience. You speak the truth as it relates to rock bottom being a very personal matter that can’t be judged from the outside. When friends/ family assume the addict has hit rock bottom, most keeps on digging.

As you know, drugs rewire the brain to protect and sustain addiction.

In my limited experience, those with long term recovery under their belts valued something more important than their drug of choice and began their difficult journey to recovery. Sadly, for many, there is nothing of higher value than their next dose.

In my experience I never once came across an addict who expected to become addicted and no shortage of addicts who persist in the fantasy they are in control and can quit anytime they care to do so. Denial is a powerful emotion.

A key difference between many European and US cultures is stigmitation. Addiction is viewed as a health issue not the moral or criminal issue it is in the US.

The source and substance of addiction is very different in Europe. Most heroin is cut with additives. Benign additives include flour, sugar, talcum and so on. In the US the dope is either purer or cut with the likes of Fentanyl and other drugs.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Barrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
A dose of heroin in Asia required for a junkie to maintain and be functional is around a dollar a day. In the United States it is probably a couple of hundred now. Most addicts cannot earn enough to pay for their drugs, and they resort to whatever they need to do to get a fix. If we had dispensaries that provided those doses at low cost to registered addicts, we could all but eliminate the crime.

The street price of Heroin has substantially declined over the years.

The street price of a dose in the US is $10-25, depending on geography and quality.

Someone in the depths of addiction needs multiple doses a day to get the sick off.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Barrington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Law enforcement wants the US public to believe otherwise though, decriminalizing these drugs would be a bad thing for law enforcement agencies, many rely on the budgets to wage the drug war, they rely on seizures of cash, property, etc.

If you take drug crime and drug related crime out of the picture, what kind of crime are LE agencies going to be left with on a daily basis? Would it be enough to justify the huge budgets they enjoy today? I think not!
LE is charged with enforcement of laws. LE does not make law.

The people elect people to make Federal and state laws.

No shortage of interests donate and lobby people elected to make laws.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The people elect people to make Federal and state laws.
That is irrelevant. Lobbyists control our government. But you already knew that. The inability of our government to get cannabis legalized despite 70% public support for it is quite telling.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:28 AM
 
3,129 posts, read 1,331,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offwhite View Post
Can’t wait for Weed to be legalized
Please. Call it cannabis if you want to be taken seriously.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
Then prosecute them for those crimes. Seems simple to me.
But in many states, prisons are full.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,451,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offwhite View Post
Can’t wait for Weed to be legalized
Some of the dispensaries in L.A just started selling recreational .

Anybody with an ID over 21 can purchase . For Medical it is 18 and over.

Interesting thing is the taxes are higher for recreational versus medical.

I believe about a 5 percent difference.

There are still many cities in the L.A area that neighbor Los Angeles but don’t allow dispensaries . They never allowed medical and they don’t plan to allow recreational either . Which many people probably don’t realize .
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,451,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
But in many states, prisons are full.
Yeah this is what they say in California . Unfortunately now we have a lot more crime because of this .
Law enforcement warned the politicians it would be a bad idea to “early release” criminals .

Also many crimes are basically no jail time or they go to jail for like 6 hours .. it’s become a joke .
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,725,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Hopefully you are not saying that we should adopt those types of policies.

There also seems to be a perception that conservatives, government, stronger families and religion will somehow magically eliminate drug addiction.

Towards that end, the only successes are in those countries that impose the harshest consequences.

Given the increasing rarity of capital punishment in the US for even the most violent crimes, the US is not going to embrace harsher consequences for drugs.
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