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The AARP alone is going to destroy Rick Scott in Florida for this
I just find it darkly hilarious that anybody in the Republican Party, or their overpayed consultants thinks that attacking the preexisting conditions clauses of the ACA is a good idea politically. The GOP is literally digging it's own political grave in the 2018 mid-terms with this stupid move. I'm an Independent politically as are most of the people in my family, friends and neighbors. A lot of us voted for Trump in Nov. 2016, or in some cases for 3rd party candidates. Many of us were on the fence up to about 3 weeks ago, but at a BBQ this weekend when the news of the Trump admin move to gut the ACA clause came out, not one person expressed an interest in voting for Republicans this November.
It looks like a blood-bath for the Republicans in Florida especially now, they were actually leading the Dems for a while, but apparently the Florida state officials are among the ring-leaders of the group trying to do away with the clauses that protect people from being thrown off insurance or forced to pay sky high rates with preexisting conditions. Stupid, stupid move politically in a state like Florida with so many AARP members and older Americans where the majority have preexisting conditions, or know someone in their family who does.
The Florida branch of the AARP today basically announced that they alone are going to go full bore and utterly destroy Rick Scott and his Senate candidacy (Scott's the governor who was apparently behind this move to remove the preexisting condition anti-discrimination clauses due to campaign bribes from the Koch Brothers), and then go after all the other Republicans going for statewide office in Florida. Add to that the big demographic changes with all the Puerto Ricans moving to Florida after the devastation of Hurricane Maria, and it means not only the collapse of the GOP in Florida for 2018, but probably the GOP falling apart in Florida for the next decade, sort of like what happened to the GOP in California. Afaik Philip Levine (the Democrat running for governor) and Bill Nelson (the Democratic Florida Senator) are already licking their chops and putting together dozens of campaign ads to crush the Republican Party on this issue alone.
I just don't get how the GOP got this stupid. They seem to think they can distract the public with other issues or talk about the economy, but people ultimately vote on issues that affect them personally the most, and healthcare is way, way at the top of the list above everything else because the US system is such a mess, and people are so anxious about it. If the GOP had a clue they'd leave this issue alone and try to keep the campaign on other ground, but they seem to get a serious infection of the stupid, or maybe too many donations and bribes from health insurance companies or the Ayn Rand idiots like the Koch Brothers. It's a shame because I feel like we need some balance in government, but it's hard for me to have any sympathy for a party that's so obviously stupid to attack something that even a big majority of Republican voters support. Down, down they go.
Anything that covers pre-existing conditions isn't insurance.
Then maybe using "insurance" is a dumb idea to cover health care needs, like the whole rest of the world has figured out?
Please tell, an honest answer here, if you had a kid who was born with a heart condition, not even a serious one (most heal up on their own, at least that's what the doctor told my cousin who had a kid with such a condition), but diagnosed at birth. So it heals up, but now the kid is stuck with a preexisting condition as the health insurance companies see it. Would you be OK with your son or daughter being un-insurable for life, or facing job discrimination or crazy insurance costs because of it? Or what if your kid got type one diabetes? Not even all that expensive to treat, tedious but the treatment's been around for like 70 years. Would you be OK with your kid being stigmatized for having that preexisting condition for no fault of their own?
Honest answers, please.
I just find it funny how so many of these so-called conservatives scream and whine about people not taking personal responsibility, but then have no problem kicking someone who got a preexisting condition due to no fault of their own.
So true, and the funny thing about this is, I know plenty of Americans who have emigrated after getting fed up with dealing with the stupid health care system here. And the think is, not one of them are freeloaders, deadbeats or moochers like the Koch Brothers and other plutocrat bribers like to claim. They're mostly educated, successful and hard-working professionals, many in STEM and many of them entrepreneurs. But they're sick and tired of all the stupid overhead and waste of time and money that the US health insurance companies force on them. They've all found it much easier to start and continue their businesses in developed countries overseas, a lot of Asian-Americans are doing this (for many reasons, had a thread on this), but plenty of other Americans are going to Europe, or even to South american countries like the wealthier parts of Brazil, or Argentina or even Colombia. (Ironically, not many people going to Britain maybe because the Tory Party there is trying to get rid of the NHS and make healthcare there like in the US, stupidly enough).
And the thing is, their taxes are around the same as the US, or even a little lower when you factor in state and local and business commercial taxes and fees, but they got more for their taxes and don't have to deal with the health insurance BS of the USA. They can just focus on their business with much lower health care costs, so ironically, they beat out their competitors back in the US itself b/c their costs are lower overall. The USA now has it's own brain drain of bring motivated people because it's health care system is idiotic and it's political system is too corrupt, run by bribes from plutocrats like the Koch Brothers, to actually do anything to make it better.
Democrats had full control of all three branches for two years.
They could have passed anything they wanted.
But they chose to ram useless Obamacare down the country's throat instead.
While I despise what the GOP is doing now in trying to get rid of the preexisting conditions anti-discrimination clauses, as an Independent I do agree with you on one point. The Dems could have done so much better, and this was maybe the big failing of Obama's 2 terms that he got through something that was so relatively weak. The defense a lot of my Dem friends say, is that even with 60 Dem Senators and a Dem-ruled House, the opposition from Republicans with the filibuster there, and then also the problem with yellow dog Senators like Joe Lieberman and Blanch Lincoln, made the ACA the best they could do.
I don't buy into this, not one bit, because the Dems could have passed a much better bill with a simple majority in Congress just thru budget-reconciling, which they easily had the votes for. That's what the GOP did with the tax bill in 2017, which they didn't have anything near 60 votes for! Obama could have done the same thing, but he got timid, didn't push for single payer or even a public-option. The biggest mistake of his presidency and probably his biggest regret. That was a historical missed opportunity not just for Obama and the Democrats, for the USA as a whole. Imagine how much smoother the country would be operating, even for businesses if we had a lower cost, sensible system like England's NHS, or France or Canada or Sweden's system, much less expensive than USA but they get better results. And instead we got Obamacare which did do some good, but not nearly enough with the system in such bad crisis. And a lot of US businesses and smart people emigrating abroad so they don't have to deal with all the messes of the US healthcare system. Too bad. Although irony is, the GOP is now doing something so stupid and unpopular with this court case, they'll probably hand the Democrats a super-majority and we'll soon get single payer anyway. Maybe the right thing will happen after all.
I actually think insurance companies need to be done away with. Their very existence has helped create the second class status of those with preexisting conditions. I mean, hospitals would be fined if they charged more or refused to serve those with preexisting conditions, yet it does make fiscal sense for an insurance company to turn down higher risk people because it hurts their profits.
Thus, the best solution WOULD be to get the insurance companies and Big Government out of healthcare. Of course, the system WOULD still be overloaded from all the freeloading illegals (especially in CA) messing with the system so YES, deporting them and cutting them off from it is a MUST!
People forget that the Left actually WANTED to bring down the safety net/entitlement system (and the rest of the economy with it!) in a strategy called Cloward-Piven that was first pushed by two dudes named Cloward and Piven and later adopted by this fellow named Saul Alinsky, two of whose followers were named Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
So true, and the funny thing about this is, I know plenty of Americans who have emigrated after getting fed up with dealing with the stupid health care system here. And the think is, not one of them are freeloaders, deadbeats or moochers like the Koch Brothers and other plutocrat bribers like to claim. They're mostly educated, successful and hard-working professionals, many in STEM and many of them entrepreneurs. But they're sick and tired of all the stupid overhead and waste of time and money that the US health insurance companies force on them. They've all found it much easier to start and continue their businesses in developed countries overseas, a lot of Asian-Americans are doing this (for many reasons, had a thread on this), but plenty of other Americans are going to Europe, or even to South american countries like the wealthier parts of Brazil, or Argentina or even Colombia. (Ironically, not many people going to Britain maybe because the Tory Party there is trying to get rid of the NHS and make healthcare there like in the US, stupidly enough).
And the thing is, their taxes are around the same as the US, or even a little lower when you factor in state and local and business commercial taxes and fees, but they got more for their taxes and don't have to deal with the health insurance BS of the USA. They can just focus on their business with much lower health care costs, so ironically, they beat out their competitors back in the US itself b/c their costs are lower overall. The USA now has it's own brain drain of bring motivated people because it's health care system is idiotic and it's political system is too corrupt, run by bribes from plutocrats like the Koch Brothers, to actually do anything to make it better.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen.
But not many Americans move away simply due to HC snafus. Maybe a few with family or a business elsewhere, or the well to do with the money and reasons. Otherwise the poor and typical middle class is stuck here.
Obamacare does work when the Shtz hits the fan. Not that it is reasonable in price, but it is much harder to go BK these days due to HC problems.
It's over baby! The Obama free-lunch food trucks broke down.
Have a pre-existing illness?----rates will reflect it. It's just math.
Since you seem so comfortable arguing this in the abstract, again I'll ask you the same question I did someone else here to get a sense of how you'd really feel if this affected you personally.
Please tell, an honest answer here, if you had a kid who was born with a heart condition, not even a serious one (most heal up on their own, at least that's what the doctor told my cousin who had a kid with such a condition), but diagnosed at birth. So it heals up, but now the kid is stuck with a preexisting condition as the health insurance companies see it. Would you be OK with your son or daughter being un-insurable for life, or facing job discrimination or crazy insurance costs because of it? Or what if your kid got type one diabetes? Not even all that expensive to treat, tedious but the treatment's been around for like 70 years. Would you be OK with your kid being stigmatized for having that preexisting condition for no fault of their own?
Honest answers, please.
And just in case you're wondering, I'm not a liberal or a Democrat, I'm an Independent as is just about everyone around me, so I'm asking you this more to get a sense of how you would react if the policy affected you directly.
I actually think insurance companies need to be done away with. Their very existence has helped create the second class status of those with preexisting conditions. I mean, hospitals would be fined if they charged more or refused to serve those with preexisting conditions, yet it does make fiscal sense for an insurance company to turn down higher risk people because it hurts their profits.
Thus, the best solution WOULD be to get the insurance companies and Big Government out of healthcare. Of course, the system WOULD still be overloaded from all the freeloading illegals (especially in CA) messing with the system so YES, deporting them and cutting them off from it is a MUST!
People forget that the Left actually WANTED to bring down the safety net/entitlement system (and the rest of the economy with it!) in a strategy called Cloward-Piven that was first pushed by two dudes named Cloward and Piven and later adopted by this fellow named Saul Alinsky, two of whose followers were named Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
You are telling me that I shouldn't be able to buy HC insurance? You are going to cancel Medicare? You are going to ask seniors to pay tens to hundreds of thousands per year for HC? And you think Dems want to blow things up?
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The AARP alone is going to destroy Rick Scott in Florida for this
