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99%+ of the population is male or female, with a miniscule percentage having some sort of BIOLOGICAL abnormality. There is no "fluid." It's social nonsense.
Nature did not provide us with "options." Last I checked "Nature" didn't invent popular culture that championed and manipulated the feelings of a very, very, very small minority, which is bolstered by a sociologist who did "research" in the 1960s that was child mental, emotional, and sexual abuse ... where he also fabricated his data, with his experiment resulting in 2 men, who years after being in his gender bending "experiment" committed suicide.
This is the ONLY area of science where "policy" is based on the extreme, rather than the normal. And it ceases ro become "science" but rather political sociology.
I beleive I read the book describing the case to which you refer. Was it called "As Nature Made Him?" Very sad story.
I feel sad for girls who train for years to win just to lose to biologically intact males. I predict girls sports will diminish as competitive girls choose not to compete in sports when they don't have a chance to win.
The saddest thing I watched related to this was during the Rio Olympics in the women's 800m when Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Wambui all supposed 'females', but were definitely some of the manliest 'females' I've seen race and beat out all the real females in the finals and grab all the medals.
What a damn joke that was and how disheartening all the real females that trained so hard for that event for years must have felt that they ended up getting beat by not real females that were allowed to compete against them in the name of political correctness.
99%+ of the population is male or female, with a miniscule percentage having some sort of BIOLOGICAL abnormality. There is no "fluid." It's social nonsense.
Nature did not provide us with "options." Last I checked "Nature" didn't invent popular culture that championed and manipulated the feelings of a very, very, very small minority, which is bolstered by a sociologist who did "research" in the 1960s that was child mental, emotional, and sexual abuse ... where he also fabricated his data, with his experiment resulting in 2 men, who years after being in his gender bending "experiment" committed suicide.
This is the ONLY area of science where "policy" is based on the extreme, rather than the normal. And it ceases ro become "science" but rather political sociology.
Technical question here: let's say anatomically female or male has a chromosome/genetic condition where they have extra chromosomes of the opposite sex. Should they technically be considered intersexed or does it take a certain amount of chromosomes and conditions to be considered intersexed?
Unless a trans person has an intersexed condition (they were intersexed but chose to have gender re-assignment for a particular gender), I consider that person to be the sex they were born with. Thus, I don't consider a male-to-female marrying a woman to be lesbian or vice versa. I suppose a bisexual label might be applicable.
I am not a doctor but damn dude you are a nut job if you think any estrogen/hormone treatment is going to bring Arnold in his prime down to any females level in strength and mass. forget 1 year, even 10 years, I guarantee he would of been absolutely outclassing females in strength. Arnold isn't a runner, but if he was doing women weight sports as a trans men, could you support that?
I don't understand what the issue is. why cant we have 4 divisions? this has to be devastating to girls in school who want to compete, but here comes josh'et and brad'lena breaking 30 year old female records on a casual jog
Check out Australia's contribution to the brave new PC world - a transgender footballer.
Literally a dude in a dress and a wig lol.
This nut job will keep on going until proven wrong, and that won't be until trans females start dominating in Division 1 Sports. Trans female athletes are nothing new. Been going on for awhile in college sports. Of course the media only covers the HS athlete who has had no T- suppression. They are, and most people totally unaware of the fact its been going on in college sports since around 2013.
The saddest thing I watched related to this was during the Rio Olympics in the women's 800m when Caster Semenya, Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Wambui all supposed 'females', but were definitely some of the manliest 'females' I've seen race and beat out all the real females in the finals and grab all the medals.
What a damn joke that was and how disheartening all the real females that trained so hard for that event for years must have felt that they ended up getting beat by not real females that were allowed to compete against them in the name of political correctness.
Caster Semenya was actually born inter-sex, or another term a hermaphrodite. A different situation beings she does have hormone levels closer to a male then female. However at one point she was forced to take T-suppressing drugs for a time, and could not win anything while doing so, which kind of proves my point, the effect those drugs have on the human body.
Last edited by jazzy jeff; 06-09-2018 at 01:56 PM..
No need to lecture me about athletics. I have been in the biz for 40 plus years. If you read my original post in this thread I stated there have been trans female athletes in college sports, women's pro hockey for several years now, as well as the recent Boston Marathon.. No display of unfair advantages. In fact none of the trans women in college sports have ever been talented or competitive enough to compete at the D2 or D1 level. If advantaged Jessica Platt from the" Canadian Womens Hockey League" would of made their national team. In fact she never was selected for an all-star game.
Once again those that are the experts in the field will tell you there may be advantages in strength, but dis-advantages in speed and stamina which makes for a level playing field. There was a study done on trans runners and cyclists after completion of a year of T suppression with results showing on average they were 2 percent slower then cis-gender females.
Like it or not, it is what it is, and women's sports will keep on doing just fine. High School sports need to adapt polices in line with the NCAA and IOC.
That's a very narrow study with a very narrow outcome, and I have my doubts about the credibility of the study. I ran cross-country in high school -- very badly. I wasn't much of athlete really. But in a 5K race where I placed close to last, I still beat all the girls. (You run them at the same time due to time constraints.) Men have bigger lungs and hearts than women and these things develop at a very young age. Is a biological man's heart and lungs going to shrink due to testosterone suppression? Of course not.
The study might be valid. It's possible that after a lifetime of Testosterone, biological men have difficulty adapting to the lack of it. Do trans-women's bodies adapt after a few years? And if it is true that trans-women are always slower and have less stamina, but are bigger and stronger, then you'd have to keep them out of all sports where strength and size are advantageous.
Trans-women are an exceptionally tiny percentage of the population, yet they are already making a very dominant showing in women's athletics. The pool of biological women is massive. Pointing to single cases in point isn't very useful. It's just possible that the top % of trans-women are worse at a given sport than the top 0.5% of biological women. A proper analysis would compare the relative success of trans-women. If they do significantly better on average than biological women, then that's a problem.
That's a very narrow study with a very narrow outcome, and I have my doubts about the credibility of the study. I ran cross-country in high school -- very badly. I wasn't much of athlete really. But in a 5K race where I placed close to last, I still beat all the girls. (You run them at the same time due to time constraints.) Men have bigger lungs and hearts than women and these things develop at a very young age. Is a biological man's heart and lungs going to shrink due to testosterone suppression? Of course not.
The study might be valid. It's possible that after a lifetime of Testosterone, biological men have difficulty adapting to the lack of it. Do trans-women's bodies adapt after a few years? And if it is true that trans-women are always slower and have less stamina, but are bigger and stronger, then you'd have to keep them out of all sports where strength and size are advantageous.
Trans-women are an exceptionally tiny percentage of the population, yet they are already making a very dominant showing in women's athletics. The pool of biological women is massive. Pointing to single cases in point isn't very useful. It's just possible that the top % of trans-women are worse at a given sport than the top 0.5% of biological women. A proper analysis would compare the relative success of trans-women. If they do significantly better on average than biological women, then that's a problem.
Very dominate showing where? A New Zealand weight-lifter and a HS runner that has had no T-suppression. Who else?
I stated in an earlier post they are in college sports and not one has yet to compete above Division 3. There are plenty of D1 and D2 schools that have transgender policies in place for when that recruit comes along talented enough to compete at that level.
Never implied I competed or even knew much about MMA. I even stated combat sports is one area where the policy needs to be looked at. I also know Rogan does not like Fallen Fox competing, but if her skill set is as bad as he says, and would not be competitive against a top rank fighter, whats the problem?
You are taking his quote out of context and adding context to it. Rogan would never agree that Fallon should fight women.
Moreover, Rogan is not an expert because he has never competed at even the high school level.
Moreover, almost everyone who fights, including all women fighters (you know, those that have to take the punches), would not agree. Any man who has competed in combat sports even at a moderate level knows how ridiculous this is.
Who is demanding to be heard, in favor of TS fighters competing with women, are the TS fighters, the gay community, and people who have never competed over a period of time. In pother words, people whose opinions do not actually matter in the slightest.
What you are likely to do is destroy the sport rather than get your way, politically.
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As far as other sports I am not talking about a guys competing against women, I am talking about trans females that have under-gone T suppression competing against women.
The muscle stays the same. See my prior post. Fallon has the muscle of a man, not a woman. For example.
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I am not an expert in anyway on that topic but listen to the ones that are,
Like who? then you are absolutely noise in the conversation here. Your arguments are worthless. You are essentially advocating for women to get battered by trans men. That's a horrendous political position.
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and am also aware of the practical reality side of it based on what is happening currently in sports.
The practical reality is that men and women only compete against one another for very good reasons of fair competition and safety.
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If you don't like the term cis-gender. To bad!! That's the term used to differentiate between trans and non trans people.
No, its a political word that trans people invented. It bears no meaning in conversation outside of their community.
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As far as my resume, not that it all matters on the topic, I am a former pro baseball player and Division 1 College Coach (Power Conference School).
So, no fighting experience? Your opinions are worthless where his argument meets its most formidable challenge: in the ring
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Upon retirement (here is where it matters) I became what they call a "sports diversity and inclusion specialist".
So, you have an economic and economically incentivized political motivation to argue for your position here. Color me unimpressed by the reasons for your position.
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Started as an advocate and member for a non-profit called "Athlete Ally", and later joined up and currently with another non-profit "You Can Play Project". We work closely with HS, college and pro sports on LGBT inclusion. Both these groups include hundreds of college, pro athletes and coaches, straight, gay, bi and transgender.
You are essentially in this thread to attempt to build a public conversation in support of what puts food on your table.
No thank you, salesperson. You won't have your win in this particular thread, no matter how belligerent you continue to be. Our women and our institutions are not up for sale to support your professional political agenda.
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Now like it or not, it is what it is.
It is not "what it is" in high school, and yet you advocate that's where it needs to go.
So, please save your declarations of victory that assume that we only move on to the management stage. You are a political advocate, not a political realist. We will fight you every step of the way, for very good reasons, and eventually roll back whatever is in place that is bad for our national sports institutions.
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Both the NCAA and IOC policies were put in place where changes could be made if it turns out it's bad policy. So far no indication.
Right, because the liberal press in this nation would allow it o be rolled back at this point. We'll see what happens.
1. Should high school trans "female" (ie: actual males) wrestlers be allowed to wrestle females if they are still only attracted to females?
2. Should trans "male" (ie: actual women) wrestlers be allowed to wrestle males if they are still primarily attracted to males?
3. Should gay male wrestlers be allowed to wrestle other males without disclosing their sexuality in order to give the competing male a choice in the matter?
Bonus questions:
4. What if the trans "gay" / or non-trans gay wrestler is 18 and the non-trans / heterosexual wrestler is 17? This is a common pairing in wrestling matches.
5. Can you assure a lack of sexual motivation that would no put the trans/gay student and school in legal jeopardy for an attempt at sexual molestation with a possible additional charge for it involving a minor?
6. Can you assure that the competing non gay / non-trans male won't incur a level of trauma by being possibly used for a level of sexual gratification in the case of non-disclosed homosexuality in wrestling?
Genital area extended contact, often with marked pressure and rubbing, with body parts of competitors, to include every part of the arm, is a matter of course in almost every wrestling match.
Remember, the majority of people are not trans and are heterosexual. They have rights as well.
The fact including TS competitors in the sports of their "transitioned to" sex is a bad road that will cost society much more than it gives to the rare people with such a need.
Homosexuality has been long ignored and wrestling and needs to be addressed, head on, to protect the rights of heterosexual and often under-age wrestlers.
Last edited by golgi1; 06-09-2018 at 02:48 PM..
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