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LMAO...Scandinavians consider their states to be steeped in socialist principles.
Ask the Swedish limousine driver that picked up my wife and I at the Port of Goteborg ...you know, the one that told me that he likes his 60% + income tax rate.
What in the hell do you call that?
And he gets sick he is given the best care free of charge he dosen't become homeless. Sounds like Sweden is far more humane place to live than the USA.
LMAO...Scandinavians consider their states to be steeped in socialist principles.
Lots of people think lots of things, especially about "isms" Lots of people think Finland is Scandinavian and would not know a Swede from an Uralic. Lots of people think they understand Marxism as well when they don't.
Quote:
Ask the Swedish limousine driver that picked up my wife and I at the Port of Goteborg ...you know, the one that told me that he likes his 60% + income tax rate.
What in the hell do you call that?
I don't know, what do you call it? You mean to tell me a 60% tax rate means you can call it something?
If most of the output of the economy is managed by private capital it means its a capitalist system with a generous welfare state. In other words the money is made with capitalism and its spent by the government in welfare in the so called Scandinavian states. This differs vastly from the state managing the economic output. When the state decides to manage the productive society, its more akin to the socialism stage of Marxism. It could spend most of its money on the military with a very limited amount of welfare. Sound like Soviets at all to you perhaps?
Just because you have no idea what you are talking about, don't look at me. You have your own problems, and they are rather severe in the lack of perspective.
They are mixed economies, just like every other successful economy in the world. There is pure Socialism and pure Laissez Faire Capitalism. Both are terrible ideas.
It is 100% accurate to say that they are not Socialist countries. Actual socialism requires the government to seize the means of production, which hasn't happened in any of those countries. Actual Socialism means paying everyone exactly the same thing no matter what the job is. That isn't happening either. But they have very large social programs and high taxes.
On the sliding scale between pure Capitalism and pure Socialism, they're further towards the Socialism end than the USA is. That much as a completely accurate observation.
We subsidize their military spending. Denmark is a small country, so they can cruise on the backs of the big guys (Germany, USA). They barely have a standing army and they spend half of what NATO has in its guidelines.
Imagine if we could outsource all our military spending to some other country. With our economy we would have all the same benefits and then some.
[quote=Winterfall8324;52165834]They never were socialists.
And yet right wingers consider their policies as extremists./QUOTE]
Right wingers don't consider their policies extremist.
Here is the Merriam-Webster first definition of Socialism:
"any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
&
Definition of capitalism
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market"
Notice that both these definitions address production and distribution of goods. Under these definitions, Neither the Nordic countries or the USA are "socialist."
But these definitions don't address services which account for a huge part of all modern economies. Services would include education, infrastructure, medical, security, retirement benefits, etc. In this area is where you see a huge difference in how the USA & the Nordic countries operate and pay for services. The Nordic model is a high confiscation of taxes with the government in control of a huge portion of services while the USA has fewer taxes and fewer services. The debate is who is in charge of and who pays for these services. I prefer the USA model which is why I haven't considered moving to a Nordic country and decided not to buy the Spanish Golden Visa.
They have such welfare system, mixed with free market economy, as opposed to having the government own businesses, which would be the case in true socialism. I believe that is the point the OP is trying to make. So, no, they are not as socialist as you can get.
Those who take advantage of the cradle to grave don't live anywhere near as well as those who work....so that, in itself, is a good reason (besides the many others) to be productive.
This one has me thinking - I wonder what the "wallet tests" would show in these countries? That is, dropping a wallet with money in it as has been done in the USA.....
Would the same amount of people (about 40% in the USA) return it?
Tests such as this would indicate the general morality of the populace - although those countries beat the USA in most every metric.
As far as health care - the USA doesn't want to save money and give better care. It's simply not as profitable - and money is our God. Period.
Notice that both these definitions address production and distribution of goods. Under these definitions, Neither the Nordic countries or the USA are "socialist."
.
There are some semantics involved here!
Example - if a government states that a certain area can ONLY use steam or hot water heat from a central plant (as they do in Denmark), then the sales of the heat exchangers and other systems involved increase - as does the R&D involved.
I use this example because I imported heating equipment from Denmark so was somewhat familiar with their "Central Planning".
Same goes with Environmental Standards. If Denmark decides to "go with wind power" (which they did - long ago), they build up a great wind turbine industry (which they did - the largest company in the world)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas
You are fooling yourself to say the USA doesn't do the same - but we do it mostly on the Military end. Vast industries exist due to the TRILLION per year we spend on the Security State. Somewhat similar in the medical industry since the government pays 2/3 of all medical costs here.
Again, based on my experience the real difference is that our "forced spending" here often does not benefit the People, but rather corporations or certain voting blocks (even small ones due to our system...example: Cubans in S. Florida, etc.)..
Personally, I'd rather my government spend our tax money and efforts on the Happiness and General Welfare of the People rather than the silly construct of "business". Business happens automatically as a result...
They are mixed economies, just like every other successful economy in the world. There is pure Socialism and pure Laissez Faire Capitalism. Both are terrible ideas.
It is 100% accurate to say that they are not Socialist countries. Actual socialism requires the government to seize the means of production, which hasn't happened in any of those countries. Actual Socialism means paying everyone exactly the same thing no matter what the job is. That isn't happening either. But they have very large social programs and high taxes.
On the sliding scale between pure Capitalism and pure Socialism, they're further towards the Socialism end than the USA is. That much as a completely accurate observation.
Again this is a bit of a false dichotomy altogether, even when making a continuum between the two poles. A mixed economy is at least an improvement in regards to the description. However there is a difference between deciding what to make and how ,and how it should be distributed.
That Graphic pretty well describes how it is to live here in Norway.
Norway rocks!!!!! Love it there too!!
So many here are against a more level playing field.
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Right wingers don't consider their policies extremist.
