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Old 07-05-2018, 05:50 AM
 
59,037 posts, read 27,298,344 times
Reputation: 14281

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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Nonsense.

They wanted to permit slavery in every new state admitted into the union...places that had never known Antebellum Slavery. Places like Kansas and Nebraska. They wanted the whole nation to accept that their institution was good, ordained by God, and the natural order of things.

That’s a cultural revolution. You want to force your depredations on others and force them to believe that beating, raping, torturing, and the selling away of family members is sanctioned by your common God and common constitution.

And that’s why the South got curbstomped.
All the South wanted to do was to leave the United States.

They "joined' freely and should have been allowed to "leave" freely.

ANYTHING you "join", you should be able to resign from.


"Free" men should be allowed to make whatever "choice", there goes that word again, the wish, to belong or NOT to belong.


Why did Lincoln stop them?
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,839,973 times
Reputation: 41863
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Okay, so this citizen of East Cobb makes a plea (and mostly a decent one) for the name of a Confederate General to remain as the name of a local park. I get it. She makes arguments for not sanitizing history and so on. I think we’re all able to digest those arguments whether or not we agree with it.

But then, she gets carried away and says this:



Uhhh...does she realize that the General (Joseph Johnson) whose name she wants preserved on a local park, tried to rip this country apart because he thought this country was rotten and he attempted a “political and cultural revolution” that failed miserably?

Not to mention that she refers to her opposition on this issue in terms like ‘ISIS’ and ‘Taliban.’

In any case, just a really nice laugh for the day.

https://www.theroot.com/confederate-...1827287553/amp

Anyone who denies that the real purpose of the South trying to leave was slavery is lying. They wanted to keep it, the rest of the country did not.

I remember being in the service in the mid 60's, and all the Southern boys in the barracks had this chant of "The South shall rise again" !! They were serious, and were not exactly fond of the black soldiers in our group. That was 100 years after the end of the Civil War, and these men were still fighting that war !

All of us Northern guys could not understand what they were talking about, to us the war was a non issue and ancient history, but not to the boys from the South . They were Hell bent on reliving it and even wanting those days before the war to return. I bet some of them still feel that way.
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Old 07-05-2018, 06:43 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,924,139 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
All the South wanted to do was to leave the United States.

They "joined' freely and should have been allowed to "leave" freely.

ANYTHING you "join", you should be able to resign from.


"Free" men should be allowed to make whatever "choice", there goes that word again, the wish, to belong or NOT to belong.


Why did Lincoln stop them?
There was a discrepancy about which men were free.
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:44 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,094,094 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
All the South wanted to do was to leave the United States.

They "joined' freely and should have been allowed to "leave" freely.

ANYTHING you "join", you should be able to resign from.


"Free" men should be allowed to make whatever "choice", there goes that word again, the wish, to belong or NOT to belong.


Why did Lincoln stop them?
A little irony here maybe? "Free" men should be allowed to deny other men their freedom. How do you square that circle?
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:58 AM
 
Location: USA
18,491 posts, read 9,159,286 times
Reputation: 8524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
All the South wanted to do was to leave the United States.

They "joined' freely and should have been allowed to "leave" freely.

ANYTHING you "join", you should be able to resign from.


"Free" men should be allowed to make whatever "choice", there goes that word again, the wish, to belong or NOT to belong.
At least one of the southern states made that very argument in their declaration of secession. I can’t remember if it was Georgia or South Carolina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Why did Lincoln stop them?
He didn’t buy the argument that the USA was a voluntary association of independent sovereign states. He made that clear in his 1861 inaugural address.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:12 AM
 
59,037 posts, read 27,298,344 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
There was a discrepancy about which men were free.
Eventually we came to our senses.

We were the FIRST country in history to "free" the salves.

Many are not aware the man who had the MOST slaves was ALSO a black man.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:16 AM
 
59,037 posts, read 27,298,344 times
Reputation: 14281
Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sagain View Post
HITLER doesn’t get statues, SADDAM HUSSEIN, doesn’t get statues. The TRAITORS against AMERICA don’t get statues.
" The TRAITORS against AMERICA don’t get statues."

So anybody who wants to leave any organization they freely joined and then changed their minds are "traitors"

I guess "free will" isn't something you agree with.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:20 AM
 
Location: *
13,240 posts, read 4,924,139 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Eventually we came to our senses.

We were the FIRST country in history to "free" the salves.

Many are not aware the man who had the MOST slaves was ALSO a black man.
When did (you) come to your senses? After the Slaver States lost the American Civil War? The Cold War for white supremacy lasted for over a century.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
16,352 posts, read 8,094,094 times
Reputation: 9726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" The TRAITORS against AMERICA don’t get statues."

So anybody who wants to leave any organization they freely joined and then changed their minds are "traitors"

I guess "free will" isn't something you agree with.
You apparently think that Africans who were brought to this country in chains became slaves of their own "free will". Also your claim that America was the first country to ban slavery is total BS.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:39 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,698,667 times
Reputation: 4631
Quote:
Originally Posted by r small View Post
Also your claim that America was the first country to ban slavery is total BS.
You really don't need to search very far to see that slavery was abolished/outlawed in various nations long long before the American Civil War.

Also of note, you'll find that many countries have no such laws explicitly stating that there is no slavery. Why? Common-f***ing-sense.

Also, there was an earlier post about whether General Lee was a traitor or not for supporting Virginia over the nation he swore to protect. That got me thinking. When Lee was faced with this difficult decision, he may have opted for whatever he felt was simply in HIS best interests. He may not have been championing continuing enslavement as much as simply "taking care of himself above all others." If his financial well-being (estates, landholdings, money) was tied to a state that just left the Union, what choice did he have if he was going to put his own interests first?

We as Americans are constantly put our own interests first. We might know what is "right" but sometimes what is "right" is hard to do. Take nearly any controversial political topic. There are plenty of people that might feel that what is right for them, is right for all. Or that what may be right may hurt themselves somehow. And they vote with their personal well-being held above the well-being of anyone else.

Maybe Lee was just as American as we are - putting our own interests first and to hell with the consequences.
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