Conservative here. I'll provide you my thoughts and logic.
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Originally Posted by Boer
Its clear that libertarians and conservatives support privatizing government services
does this extend to military and spy networks??
I can understand some of the debates surrounding things like road maintenance and Parks
my theory is when you get into armed offensive operators you have a whole other series of ethical issues to deal with
https://youtu.be/2m_wFx1lrJM
https://youtu.be/8dQ4TD7kAE4 |
You provided no example of an existing private military and "spy" service.
Ethics are like morals, opinions, and buttholes. Everyone's got one, and they stink.
I take issue with how we have been fighting wars since Vietnam.
No logical mission, focus on capturing hearts and minds because Muh optics!
Go in, acheive the missions stop letting politicians bind warfighters hands in the name of nation building and capturing hearts and minds. Go in. Clear house. Win. Come home after the opposition has been defeated. Nope. Train military to fight an opposing standing army to combat asymmetrical warfare. That's a recipe for disaster. Thank politicians for that. Regardless left or right.
First of all. There are already private investigators in existence. They'll track down anything and anyone from cheating spouses to investigating fraud. If it's okay to do to the public then why take issue with doing the same with the government? Wouldn't you want inept politicians held accountable for their failures? Or would you rather they continue to abuse their powers and go unchecked and protect their own?
Have you lost sight of, of the people, by the people, for the people? Or did you fall for the lemming/hive/collectiveism that government can do no wrong?
Your concerns of a private counter intelligence agency are valid on the following premises.
1. Giving away government property
2. Giving away national security details like encryption for missiles for an example.
3. Exposing locations of clandestine military operations.
I can go on.
As far as privatized military what concern do you have? What legitimate concern would you have with it? If the premise is/was we are only in the middle east to protect big business interests, why not big business be allowed to fund their protection of their interests? Why make congress do it at the expense of the armed forces and tax payers?
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Originally Posted by Boer
The lack of responses to this thread makes me really suspicious as to Libertarians convictions in their claims
they always espouse how genius it is to privatize armed services but when examples are presented all you hear are crickets in the background.
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Because you didn't provide an examples. You provided hearsay. Someone repeated what Trump had said and offered 0 insight in how this would be implemented or even legal. Period.
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Originally Posted by Boer
In my opinion this certifies in a way that people who espouse privatization of government services are paid shrills who spout propaganda in slick formats so when you post these kinds of things on public forums that don't have those paid shrills trolling all day long you don't get any responses.
The fact is John Q public doesn't even understand what these things are... it's a lot like net neutrality except this involves actual missiles!!!
I feel as though Libertarians prefer to argue about speculative issues like who owns the moon vs the real world facts we face today
a private armed service injecting a profit motive into warfare it's an extremely big deal and extraordinarily serious but I guess people would rather talk about Justin Biebers new haircut.
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It's
shills Not shrills.
Because someone has a different view point than you, they're a paid shill or trolling? LOL Hitler and Stalin would love you. Paid shill or troll, off to the gulag or gas chamber for wrong think.
Okay so you take issue with profit motive in warfare? How so? Why?
Why pay grunts poorly in relation to the tasks they perform, and risks they take, when you can pay others a price based on a contract and in that contract have a goal or goals, and parameters to abide by? Where do you find issue with that? Rather than having long drawn out battles or deploy men to stand around and be targets without the ability to engage threats as the pop up, keep them there? And for what? To be fodder in vain of nation building, regime change and to be picked off?
No.
A private military force if I were implementing one, would not be beholden to your feelings broadcast by MSM. They answer to me. Not you. The goals I set. Not congress. Go in. Kick ass. Acheive the mission/objective within the time frame given, and come home. Trained in asymmetrical warfare. Not conventional warfare. Basically a few divisions worth, trained by Green Berets, Force Recon/Raiders, Rangers, PJs, Seals etc. Comprised of veterans even, trained for unconventional warfare.
See our military has to abide by Geneva convention Hague treaty etc. None of that would be on a private military. No binds that tie the private forces hands behind their back. If I dispatch 2 divisions to take an ISIS stronghold and give them say 5 billion dollars to do it, they have a budget to operate on. You the tax payer, are uncle sugars piggy bank. 5 billion and 2 months to get it done. They are responsible for being equipped for the mission. Whether they already own their tanks artillery etc or purchase it new or surplus. That's their responsibility for them to figure out.
Oh but the destruction! Yeah. That's war. Again. The onus of rebuilding would not be on me nor you the tax payer. If ISIS had a bank account, simply send another force to the bank to seize the cash and give it back to the village/city that lay in ruin. Not paid for by American tax payers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boer
Libertarians and conservatives seem extremely similar to me, they only differ on a couple social issues.
What's about privitazition of armed services???
Do you think a corporation should be able to run our armed services?
Should we not go into the Middle East and take out terrorists who are planning attacks on our soil?
How do you feel about private prisons?
Thanks for responding to this thread!!
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I believe private sector is better than public sector. My bias is from growing up and living in NY. Want to make something expensive? Go beyond deadlines? Justify raising taxes? Get NY state government involved. They pizz away money like it's their job.
Never mind the corruption surrounding Albany where anything from grounds maintenance to public housing funds are distributed from politicians to their friends/relatives companies to go beyond budget/deadline.
Speaking of NY. Ice skating rink in NYC. Trump was ticked that it went over budget and beyond a reasonable deadline. He funds it and gets it done quick.
Privatization of military forces? Don't have an issue with it at face value or digging deeper. Results would be far better than the current model of fighting/capturing hearts and minds, public opinion etc. Objectives would be met quicker. Efficiently too.
Obviously nukes would be out of the question. Because morality and ethics are no longer a thing. No Geneva conventions. No ties that bind. Go in. Get it done. Gather up the equipment and come home. Rather than leave tanks trucks etc behind for scumbags to use. You'd be disgusted if you knew how much equipment is abandoned overseas. I could put alot of it to good use rather than to be left behind to rot.
However, corporations operating the military? Wrong. You meant, corporations funding and operating their private military. Military is funded and operated by the government and answers to Congress, Senate, and President.
Should we not go to take out terrorists who are plotting? We should go after those plotting terrorism against us, be it here or overseas.
Private prisons? Who's paying for them? Who's paying to build them? Maintain them? Operate them? Are prisoners treated with cruel and inhumane punishment? Or are they being used as laborers for public works programs?
I see prisons as an untapped resource and potential in them.
For example.
You have some criminals locked up for YEARS. Doing what?
Getting 3 hots and a cot and lift weights.
Nope, what I would do part of the rehabilitation of say a former dope dealer, put them to work in a skilled trade to pay back the community they were a scourge in. Abandoned properties that are an eye sore? They'll learn carpentry, plumbing, electrical, landscaping etc so when they are released, they have experience to go into a job/career rather than to go back out and sling dope again.
Be part of bridge and tunnel and road crews. They'll learn relevant skills rather than rape each other and shank each other, they'd have a sense of purpose.
They may have a non violent felony conviction charge, put them to work. Make them an asset not a liability or to go back to being a scourge in their community upon release. Violent offenders on the other hand... obviously you wouldn't even dare entertain putting them to chance escape. How to implement it? Easy. Think of an electric shot dog collar where folks place the "invisible" fence in their yard and the dog won't cross that line. Prisoner attempts to remove, warning shock. Prisoner attempts to flee incapacitating shock delivered dropping them instantly. Or, administer a sedative/tranquilizer that will knock them out cold/severely weaken them to be recaptured.
But most democrats and liberals freak about the above pertaining to prisons. They'd cry
slavery! No. Think of taking prison from being a state sponsored gym and Sodomy social club, free healthcare, with steel bars and razor wire fences, and turning them into a resource to rehabilitate convicts to be productive citizens upon their release, rather than to go in and learn to be a better criminal and network so upon release they can do it again... And you don't release them until they have a job lined up. That onus can be placed on the prison to place the released into a trade/profession/job/career, and supplement labor for infrastructure maintenance/repairs.
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