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Bull$hit yourself . You are the one making references to pro lifers wanting to stick their hands up vaginas and using the hashtag about keeping hands out of vaginas . Read your own posts before spouting .
Granted, you are honest enough to admit to the position that a fetus is just like a wart to be disposed of if it's unwanted , so I'll give you that. But let's see how that stance fares with mainstream America if every pro choice person were to admit to the same attitude .
Let's face it . If the nation were to decide to settle this once and for all by a national referendum by popular vote, with the winning side getting a constitutional amendment to get ratified, but we put ALL the facts on the table to educate the public before the vote, pro choice would lose hands down. We start with how many abortions are the result of rape, medical necessity , severe deformities , and simple convenience ones because the pregnant woman didn't want to have a child . Then we look at the fetus at every stage of development and decide if it is a life or just a wart or tumor like lump of cells, from conception until birth, every week . Then we describe the methods of aborting the fetus, and how the fetus is disposed of . THEN, when all the facts are out there , THEN we vote with an educated populace . Pro lifers win that 70-30 , easily . Abortion controls in some substantial form would be the law of the land fairly quickly .
Pro choicers never win when all the facts are presented and the debate is just on them . It is exactly WHY the pro choice movement abandoned that tactic and went to demonizing the opposition instead and arguing about privacy rights . Because they get that they can't win that debate .
For your information, we live in a country that was structured to protect the rights of the individual from the tyranny of the majority. So I don’t give a flying truck what you imagine a vote of Americans would be after you attempted a brain cleanse with your Westboro Baptist Indoctrination Program. Not interested in your mystical persuasion. Am interested in reality.
And in the real world, anyone with a modicum of unindoctrinated common sense can see the following: Sperm swims in fluid, penetrates egg, and forms a zygote. A zygote is not a person. It is obvious by inspection, it is obvious by logic, it is obvious by applying the Law of Identity in its most basic sense. In fact, it is impossible to refer to a zygote as a person without engaging in Sharia level insanity. It is impossible to refer to this as anything more than exactly what it is: a collection of cells. A potential. And while in gestation, an unrealized potential. With no rights and no ethical consideration.
Your feeble-minded attempt to smear this accurate and correct characterization by associating a zygote with disagreeable cells like warts or tumors is patently retarded, and pathetically transparent.
So cut the crap and say the truth: I want you to knuckle under to my religious beliefs and follow my religious laws. Just say it. You know it’s true. The truth will set you free.
My answer? No. Absolutely not. I do not accept your religious beliefs and will not follow them or give them any credence whatsoever. I will defend your right to follow your religious beliefs with your life, and only your life. You may not, and will not, inflict or impose or coerce others to believe as you do, or conform their behavior to satisfy your religious expectations.
In a free country, you get to form your own personal values and allow them to guide your life. But that is where it ends. You need to stop rummaging around in the social vagina. #removeyourhands
Now, on to Pew. As was pointed out, the majority of Americans NOW support the right of abortion. That is going to landslide shortly. The millennials are much more secular than the baby boomers. That follows a trend that is already well developed and well underway in Europe. As the baby boomers die off, they will be replaced by a much more secular, reality based, data based, science based population. It also happens to be a valid sociological observation that the millennial generation is amazingly more “live and let live” than any other generation in recent history. Exhibit A: Gay marriage went from unthinkable to what else is new in about 15 years. The only possible conclusion? We are moving toward a society where abortion won’t even be an issue. It won’t even be a discussion. As well it shouldn’t in a free country. The decision as to whether or when to bring new life into the world lies with the woman whose body creates it and maintains it.
It is nobody else’s business, and the right to abort a zygote, an embryo, or a fetus should be absolute and unrestricted.
But it's for everyone's safety and the American people agree...
What safety is that? Safety from what? Safety to do what?
Do the US voters agree? What are they agreeing to or with? & if a clear majority of US voters had voiced their opinion on abortion from 1900CE up to 1973, when the Supreme Court finally ruled to bring some order out of chaos, the legislation might have sailed through Congress. Or maybe not - but you pays your money & you takes your chances.
The anti-abortion people didn't say anything concrete about the subject, that I recall. & now they're trying to stop the tide & roll it back. It's a difficult thing to do - the Supreme Court doesn't casually overrule itself, & especially not on contentious issues.
I'm talking about Murder in general...not about abortion.
As well as the other things I mentioned.
So are you opposed to them?
If you're beliefs aren't based on religious grounds, why would you oppose them?
Stupid question yes?
So is accusing someone of being opposed to abortion strictly on religious beliefs.
And a fertlized egg may not be a develoes human being ...but it is life...and when you have an abortion, you are destroying that life.
There is simply no way around that fact.....
"Clump of cells" or not.... it's still life
Of course it’s life. And it is proper, moral, correct, and good to end the life of those undeveloped cells when it suits the decision of she who will face the consequences of their future development. All cells are ”life”, but that says precisely nothing without the proper context.
So, in this thread I have pointed out several of the logical fallacies that have rendered your positions meritless and arbitrary. So here we go again. This time it’s “context dropping”. That one is always a favorite. Bleeting in the manor of an impaled sheep to the effect that the embryonic cells are “life”. And that abortion is the destruction of life. But you are omitting the fact that the cells are irrelevant pre-developmental life. Did you know that masturbation removes and kills living epithelial cells by the millions? That is destruction of life. And that does not even count the poor, unfortunate, living, life-containing, alive-not-dead, human precursor, sperm cells that you genocide regularly.
Can you please use Reason for just a minute or two before vomiting these strange and silly screeds? Thank you.
My gun doesn't pose any more or less threat to your life than your abortion threatens my life. In fact, my gun(s) will likely never harm a person and they're even less likely to kill another person. Your abortion is fundamentally designed to prevent and/or eliminate a human life. Abortions affect 10 times as many lives as guns do each year in this country and that includes justifiable shootings and suicides.
Interesting quote - do you have a cite for that? Is it something we can look at? How did they define affect? How did they estimate the numbers involved, & project them out to the nation & population & all the states? Did they include a sampling error, or give some range of estimated accuracy for their conclusions?
Of course it’s life. And it is proper, moral, correct, and good to end the life of those undeveloped cells when it suits the decision of she who will face the consequences of their future development. All cells are ”life”, but that says precisely nothing without the proper context.
So, in this thread I have pointed out several of the logical fallacies that have rendered your positions meritless and arbitrary. So here we go again. This time it’s “context dropping”. That one is always a favorite. Bleeting in the manor of an impaled sheep to the effect that the embryonic cells are “life”. And that abortion is the destruction of life. But you are omitting the fact that the cells are irrelevant pre-developmental life. Did you know that masturbation removes and kills living epithelial cells by the millions? That is destruction of life. And that does not even count the poor, unfortunate, living, life-containing, alive-not-dead, human precursor, sperm cells that you genocide regularly.
Can you please use Reason for just a minute or two before vomiting these strange and silly screeds? Thank you.
You're accusing me of wanting to impose Sharia law and you think I should use reason before posting?
Why? Do you want Roe v Wade overturned so that laws can be made requiring all pregnant women to give birth. Violators will be charged with murder?
I want a SC made up of Strict Constitutionalists no matter the outcome.
Blackburn had a clerk who basically said his ruling had no grounds in the Constitution.
SC is not a political action committee. Its job is to insure we adhere to the founders intent as stated in the fine documents they left us, meant as governing principles.
As for "common sense", not allowing the state to decide who is or is not a person is about as common-sensical as it gets.
It depends on how you think of the state. The state is a human construct, & we delegate law enforcement & defense & crime & punishment to it (except possibly for self defense). So in that mix, yes, the Judiciary gets to decide who is a person from the legal POV - that's part of their duties. & that's what Roe v. Wade is about. & of course the state is parent of last resort. If no one else steps forth to claim the child in question, the state will typically step in & do its best for the child. But institutions are not an ideal setting for a young child - a family is usually a better fit, & often the ideal outcome from the state's POV.
Roe balances the right to privacy of the pregnant woman, v. the obligations of the state to concern itself about the possibility of another life, another potential citizen, being brought into the world. I think it's a fair compromise - except that a compromise is unthinkable to both extremes of the pro-life & pro-choice universe of possibilities.
That unwillingness to compromise is unfortunate - we live in a republic, which means that the solutions to the thorniest political problems are usually to be found where the consensus of opinion is - somewhere in the middle. Neither extreme is going to be happy with that solution - which is acceptable. Government doesn't guarantee us the attainment of perfect happiness all the time, nor even flashes of happiness from time to time. We have the right to pursue happiness, as we construe it. & government will try to stay out of the way, as long as we don't disturb the public peace & tranquility.
I want a SC made up of Strict Constitutionalists no matter the outcome.
Blackburn had a clerk who basically said his ruling had no grounds in the Constitution.
SC is not a political action committee. Its job is to insure we adhere to the founders intent as stated in the fine documents they left us, meant as governing principles.
Founders intent? Does that mean we rescind the amendments giving the right to vote to blacks and women? Among other amendments. Im sure the majority of the founders had no interest in giving women the right to vote. It wasnt part of the culture of the time. And you want a court that upholds the “founders intent”?
For your information, we live in a country that was structured to protect the rights of the individual from the tyranny of the majority. So I don’t give a flying truck what you imagine a vote of Americans would be after you attempted a brain cleanse with your Westboro Baptist Indoctrination Program. Not interested in your mystical persuasion. Am interested in reality.
And in the real world, anyone with a modicum of unindoctrinated common sense can see the following: Sperm swims in fluid, penetrates egg, and forms a zygote. A zygote is not a person. It is obvious by inspection, it is obvious by logic, it is obvious by applying the Law of Identity in its most basic sense. In fact, it is impossible to refer to a zygote as a person without engaging in Sharia level insanity. It is impossible to refer to this as anything more than exactly what it is: a collection of cells. A potential. And while in gestation, an unrealized potential. With no rights and no ethical consideration.
Your feeble-minded attempt to smear this accurate and correct characterization by associating a zygote with disagreeable cells like warts or tumors is patently retarded, and pathetically transparent.
So cut the crap and say the truth: I want you to knuckle under to my religious beliefs and follow my religious laws. Just say it. You know it’s true. The truth will set you free.
My answer? No. Absolutely not. I do not accept your religious beliefs and will not follow them or give them any credence whatsoever. I will defend your right to follow your religious beliefs with your life, and only your life. You may not, and will not, inflict or impose or coerce others to believe as you do, or conform their behavior to satisfy your religious expectations.
In a free country, you get to form your own personal values and allow them to guide your life. But that is where it ends. You need to stop rummaging around in the social vagina. #removeyourhands
Now, on to Pew. As was pointed out, the majority of Americans NOW support the right of abortion. That is going to landslide shortly. The millennials are much more secular than the baby boomers. That follows a trend that is already well developed and well underway in Europe. As the baby boomers die off, they will be replaced by a much more secular, reality based, data based, science based population. It also happens to be a valid sociological observation that the millennial generation is amazingly more “live and let live” than any other generation in recent history. Exhibit A: Gay marriage went from unthinkable to what else is new in about 15 years. The only possible conclusion? We are moving toward a society where abortion won’t even be an issue. It won’t even be a discussion. As well it shouldn’t in a free country. The decision as to whether or when to bring new life into the world lies with the woman whose body creates it and maintains it.
It is nobody else’s business, and the right to abort a zygote, an embryo, or a fetus should be absolute and unrestricted.
LOL I haven't read much of this thread but I have to say I'm really enjoying your posts Marc. Keep fighting the good fight.
Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out why people still get so damn hung up on abortion. We have so many more pressing issues but people are still mad about abortion. And a lot of them are people, often men, who are often past the typical childbearing age. I mean... just stop already.
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