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The PUNCHLINE here is that the USA has chosen to chase people rather than focusing on the brick and mortar corporations.
This makes me believe that corporations run the USA
Big corporations bribe the lawmakers to attack the people seeking employment rather than focusing on the people that GAVE them the job.
Both are breaking the law but the corporations is eaiser to catch and there's actually money to be made in back taxes and fines.
Go after the people seeking employment and it just costs us money. Lots of money..
It was the Democrats (link already provided) that balked at e-verify the last time. It has to be proven that an employer "knowingly" had illegals working for them in order to prosecute them. Since e-verify isn't mandated in every workplace it is hard to determine in many cases that a prospective employee is an illegal alien because they present such authentic looking stolen or fake ID's and SS numbers. Sure many employers pay them cash and know they are illegal aliens also.
The fact remains that the employer and their illegal hires are equally guilty of breaking the law and they should both be sought after, focused on and held accountable. The raids are helping to do both.
Securing our border with the good walls already approved by congress in 2006 will help deter them at the border. Better to do that than to allow them to get into our country where they are harder to weed out and much more expensive to do so.
Actually, in the past year or so there have been many employers that have been caught and fined so to claim otherwise is just a deflection to keep the focus off the illegal workers themselves which is what pro-illegals do.
It was the Democrats (link already provided) that balked at e-verify the last time. It has to be proven that an employer "knowingly" had illegals working for them in order to prosecute them. Since e-verify isn't mandated in every workplace it is hard to determine in many cases that a prospective employee is an illegal alien because they present such authentic looking stolen or fake ID's and SS numbers. Sure many employers pay them cash and know they are illegal aliens also.
The fact remains that the employer and their illegal hires are equally guilty of breaking the law and they should both be sought after, focused on and held accountable. The raids are helping to do both.
Securing our border with the good walls already approved by congress in 2006 will help deter them at the border. Better to do that than to allow them to get into our country where they are harder to weed out and much more expensive to do so.
Actually, in the past year or so there have been many employers that have been caught and fined so to claim otherwise is just a deflection to keep the focus off the illegal workers themselves which is what pro-illegals do.
Wont they just dig under the wall?
Or climb over it with say a ladder and a rope.
How about a "coyote" meets them on the USA side with a ladder. An old lady could get across that.
Why not ignore the people (who cost us tax money) and go after the corporations who you can recover tax and fine money from?
Open borders are propaganda, nobody wants an open border between the USA and Mexico.
Did you know that most Mexican illegal laborers wants a border wall to stop central Americans from "stealing" their jobs!!!
there will ALWAYS be lots of poor people scraping for imcome, you can't stop them with walls only with smart enforcement of government regulations on CORPORATIONS.
The money these corporations save in hiring illegal labor will still net them BILLIONS even if a TINY fraction of them ever get raided and have to pay a few fines and or fire middle and low level management...
Remember the "Smithfield" meat packing raids?
How about all the "swift" meat packing raids?
Literally thousands of laborers were arrested and deported over the multitude of raids that have occurred between these two companies but not one single CEO has spent a second in jail over it.
A matter of fact I can't find anywhere that a corporate executive has faced jail time for breaking the law and hiring illegal laborers
How about middle management certainly one of them has faced Justice for breaking the law??
This is starting to look like a real joke to me
like propaganda 101
keep them distracted by chasing the people and build a wall!
Wont they just dig under the wall?
Or climb over it with say a ladder and a rope.
How about a "coyote" meets them on the USA side with a ladder. An old lady could get across that.
Why not ignore the people (who cost us tax money) and go after the corporations who you can recover tax and fine money from?
Open borders are propaganda, nobody wants an open border between the USA and Mexico.
Did you know that most Mexican illegal laborers wants a border wall to stop central Americans from "stealing" their jobs!!!
there will ALWAYS be lots of poor people scraping for imcome, you can't stop them with walls only with smart enforcement of government regulations on CORPORATIONS.
The money these corporations save in hiring illegal labor will still net them BILLIONS even if a TINY fraction of them ever get raided and have to pay a few fines and or fire middle and low level management...
Remember the "Smithfield" meat packing raids?
How about all the "swift" meat packing raids?
Literally thousands of laborers were arrested and deported over the multitude of raids that have occurred between these two companies but not one single CEO has spent a second in jail over it.
A matter of fact I can't find anywhere that a corporate executive has faced jail time for breaking the law and hiring illegal laborers
How about middle management certainly one of them has faced Justice for breaking the law??
This is starting to look like a real joke to me
like propaganda 101
keep them distracted by chasing the people and build a wall!
nevermind the man behind the curtain!!
Nope, the good double walls have not been climbed over nor tunneled under.
Why not go after all the law breakers in regards to illegal immigration? That would be the employers who hire them and the illegal aliens themselves. Not all illegals are here to work either.
Yes, walls are a deterrant. If they aren't they why do we have them around our homes and businesses? The good walls already erected have cut back illegal entry immensely (links provided many times). Makes more sense not to let them get in here in the first place. If they can't get in here then how can they work? Still, I'm all for e-verify and stiff fines and jail time for non-compliance. We need to remove birthright citizenship and benefit for their U.S. born kids to, jobs alone aren't the only incentive to come here.
It has to be proven that an employer "knowingly" had illegal aliens working for them in order to prosecute them. Illegal aliens present some pretty authentic looking fake documents to gain employment here. There have been a few cases of late where the employers were prosecuted. Do you need the links? Corporate executives do not hire manual laborers, duh.
Seems you hold the illegals guilt free. Why is that? Are they forced to jump our border and work here illegally? They know right from wrong. There is no distraction in going after the employers, their illegal workers and building a wall to stop them from getting in here in the first place. Me thinks, you are a pro-illegal for whatever agenda you have to keep the flow going.
Nope, the good double walls have not been climbed over nor tunneled under.
Why not go after all the law breakers in regards to illegal immigration? That would be the employers who hire them and the illegal aliens themselves. Not all illegals are here to work either.
Yes, walls are a deterrant. If they aren't they why do we have them around our homes and businesses? The good walls already erected have cut back illegal entry immensely (links provided many times). Makes more sense not to let them get in here in the first place. If they can't get in here then how can they work? Still, I'm all for e-verify and stiff fines and jail time for non-compliance. We need to remove birthright citizenship and benefit for their U.S. born kids to, jobs alone aren't the only incentive to come here.
It has to be proven that an employer "knowingly" had illegal aliens working for them in order to prosecute them. Illegal aliens present some pretty authentic looking fake documents to gain employment here. There have been a few cases of late where the employers were prosecuted. Do you need the links? Corporate executives do not hire manual laborers, duh.
Seems you hold the illegals guilt free. Why is that? Are they forced to jump our border and work here illegally? They know right from wrong. There is no distraction in going after the employers, their illegal workers and building a wall to stop them from getting in here in the first place. Me thinks, you are a pro-illegal for whatever agenda you have to keep the flow going.
So let's say hypothetically we went ahead and built the Israeli style wall from coast to coast.
WHO do you propose should man the security apparatus surrounding this Great Wall?
Unionized Government employees or would you want to subcontract it out to a firm like Blackwater?
Remember in addition to a security apparatus you're going to need a lot of Maintenance personnel and heavy equipment operators.
So let's say hypothetically we went ahead and built the Israeli style wall from coast to coast.
WHO do you propose should man the security apparatus surrounding this Great Wall?
Unionized Government employees or would you want to subcontract it out to a firm like Blackwater?
Remember in addition to a security apparatus you're going to need a lot of Maintenance personnel and heavy equipment operators.
What exactly is a good double wall?
The force the size of which we have seen fit to keep in Germany for decades should be more than justifiable and sufficient to protect our southern border at home.
Most succinctly, the best definition is likely that it is any border that allows significant immigration through any means aside from skill-based visa programs and marriage.
to me that means the difference between the states in the USA, the only checkpoint I know of is between Florida/panhandle states for agricultural inspection.
in your opinion what exactly does an "open border" mean?
"Open border" is generally a dog-whistle blown by right-wingers whenever somebody calls them out on their MAWA and anti-immigrant policies. We all know the story: right-wingers get angry that people of a different skin color or religion are inconveniencing them by existing in public. Then, a progressive calls them out on their bigotry. Finally, the rightie replies with some nonsense about "liberals wanting open borders," because that clearly justifies the right-wing hatred.
Obviously, the nation needs to keep track of its borders and not just let random people in. Equally obviously, there needs to be a path to citizenship. Finally, I'm very tired of the hatred towards immigrants and anyone who's different being hidden by the far-right behind a false concern for "the security of our borders." Rest assured, if the people fleeing over the border into America were all white, angry, "Christians" like them, the far-right would suddenly love "open borders."
So, there's a vast difference between the small percentage of goofballs who actually want true "open borders" and what most people mean when they talk about it.
Open borders are propaganda, nobody wants an open border between the USA and Mexico.
Exactly. A classic right-wing technique to defend their nonsense point of view is to extrapolate everything out to its insane conclusion. If you want to allow people who are different from the far-right to exist in America or even - gasp! - immigrant here legally, you're "in favor of open borders!" If you feel raving lunatics and grossly irresponsible idiots shouldn't be allowed to own semi-automatic, room-clearing guns, you "want to take all the guns away!" If you support the First Amendment and are opposed to theocracy, even one based on "duh bible!," than you "hate religion!"
The far-right has no facts or logic to use to defend their extremist positions, so they resort to "reduction to the absurd" to attack their opponents. It's also a case of projection: since right-wingers in general have extremist beliefs, they project the same idea onto their opponents. For example, a classic right-winger who believes "there should be no gun laws whatsoever!" when challenged on such idiocy by a progressive who points out the stupidity of, say, giving guns to drunks, will be confronted with "you want to take away all guns!" Right-wingers just assume everyone else is as extreme and opposed to reason and negotiation as they are.
Wont they just dig under the wall?
Or climb over it with say a ladder and a rope.
Walls can be built to be mostly insurmountable from the top, and deep enough to make digging uncommon. In addition, we can set up robotic machine guns in a military zone that stretches 50-100 yards from the wall border.
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How about a "coyote" meets them on the USA side with a ladder. An old lady could get across that.
See above.
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Why not ignore the people (who cost us tax money) and go after the corporations who you can recover tax and fine money from?
What?
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Open borders are propaganda, nobody wants an open border between the USA and Mexico.
Lots of people literally want that and have stated as much. Communism is strong in many communities in this nation.
Moreover, that people want this is indicated by the strong opposition to a border wall, the lax border security that lets tens of thousands of illegals through per year and is responsible for most of the Southwest Latino population, and the will to corrupt the function of asylum toward it acting as an immigration loophole rather than what it was intended to do.
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there will ALWAYS be lots of poor people scraping for imcome, you can't stop them with walls
So you say. We haven't been allowed to really try yet, have we? I bet that we can. I bet you $1.
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only with smart enforcement of government regulations on CORPORATIONS.
Regulations are subject to political whim. Concrete and steel is not.
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Literally thousands of laborers were arrested and deported over the multitude of raids that have occurred between these two companies but not one single CEO has spent a second in jail over it.
A matter of fact I can't find anywhere that a corporate executive has faced jail time for breaking the law and hiring illegal laborers
I don't see what this has to do with a wall, whatsoever. Why are you against a wall if you think that 100% enforcement through "regulations" is both moral and effective? A wall, in addition, couldn't hurt could it?
To me, it looks like you are attempting to suggest ineffective solutions because you do not want an effective solution.
You people should have accomplished this, and made sure that your solution was both effective and lasting, before we got to this point. You didn't because you were getting what you wanted. Now we will get what we want. Which is a wall. See how extreme exploitation of the system works? There are always opposite repercussions to nullify the exploitation.
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like propaganda 101
I don't think that you have a great grasp on what "propaganda" means. A wall isn't propaganda. Its a definite physical solution to a definite physical problem.
"Propaganda" is more like a suggestion to let "regulations" handle an end-game problem when they never did before and you people never advocated for them before. Regulations, in contrast to a wall, are an often ignored paper solution to a physical problem. A wall cannot be ignored. Thus, we will have a wall.
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keep them distracted by chasing the people and build a wall!
Thanks. We will.
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nevermind the man behind the curtain!!
Sure, bub. We'll build the wall and use your regulations. That's what I call compromise.
"Open border" is generally a dog-whistle blown by right-wingers whenever somebody calls them out on their MAWA and anti-immigrant policies.
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
Exactly. A classic right-wing technique to defend their nonsense point of view is to extrapolate everything out to its insane conclusion. If you want to allow people who are different from the far-right to exist in America or even - gasp! - immigrant here legally, you're "in favor of open borders!"
Sure
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We all know the story: right-wingers get angry that people of a different skin color or religion are inconveniencing them by existing in public. Then, a progressive calls them out on their bigotry.
Sorry, it goes well beyond them "existing in public". Its the takeover of entire districts that other people once had a lot of community equity in, built up over generations. These people are forced to move due to crime, cultural hostility, and other reasons that have to do with your "people of a different skin color existing in public". That's wrong.
The world does not have the right to move where they wish. Thinking as much is a communist value, which we are against. Communities have the right to their cultural and other space.
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Finally, the rightie replies with some nonsense about "liberals wanting open borders," because that clearly justifies the right-wing hatred.
If borders are functionally open, then they are functionally open. Most of the Latino population of the Southwest US is because one of their relatives snuck across the border.
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Obviously, the nation needs to keep track of its borders and not just let random people in.
Obviously, that wasn't happening. Obviously, you people didn't feel like that prior to what you are now facing. Now its loo late, and we don't trust you nor such opinions as you offer above.
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Equally obviously, there needs to be a path to citizenship.
Obviously not for everyone.
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Finally, I'm very tired of the hatred towards immigrants and anyone who's different being hidden by the far-right behind a false concern for "the security of our borders." Rest assured, if the people fleeing over the border into America were all white, angry, "Christians" like them, the far-right would suddenly love "open borders."
So what? Not everyone has a right to everyone else's community. Every single one of the minority groups in this nation, almost without exception, has a nation somewhere that is under no threat of dispossession by foreigners. If these nations were invaded by anyone else, there would be as much or more objection by the very people whose interests that you defend here. The only people who do not have such nations are White people.
"I'm sick and tired" of liberals using the false "hatred" excuse to break down the opposition to the insane desire of every minority group in the world to live near White people at all costs, even while their nations are almost completely homogeneous.
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So, there's a vast difference between the small percentage of goofballs who actually want true "open borders" and what most people mean when they talk about it.
There absolutely is not. If that were the case, then there would be significant liberal opposition to the mass immigration that we've had here and in Europe. All which signifies de facto open borders. There is no such opposition.
Moreover, using "extreme" examples is widely used as a very useful logical exercise to deduce both the inner logic and morality of any model. To say that it isn't is ignorance of logic. Not only because such models, when played out in real life, can move toward the extreme poles but they often do.
For a very pertinent example, see the advent of the 1964 immigration act when its supporters in Congress assured nation was assured that the changes would not lead to demographic composition change.
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