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Drejka was not thinking logically. He gets into a beef over a parking spot while carrying a concealed weapon. Responsible gun owners don't get into beefs over parking spots while carrying. Only fools and head cases do that.
Fools and head cases on both sides.
Don't extend a beef with someone you recognize is a fool and a head case.
Don't extend a beef with a fool who is wrong, but especially not when he's technically right.
That makes both of you fools, and he'll win because he's had more practice at it.
Your response indicates watching too much television and thinking it's reality. You still think this grown men in a fight a matter of thought-out choreography and calm deliberation.
I'll say this again because you didn't understand it the first time.
Having been in enough altercations and having been on the ground, I know this in my gut: The next thing likely to happen is being kicked and stomped, and my death is imminent.
It doesn't matter who did what or who said what before that moment. Don't be naive, don't believe what you see on television. Grown men in physical contact not a playground brawl, it's life and death.
If you knocked him down accidentally, you'd better be stepping back and apologizing profusely, because the man on the ground will be fighting for his life.
Even if it doesn't seem like it to you, do not expect him to come up in a calm state of mind. Expect him to be fighting for his life.
Look....I grew up in the hood. I seen people shot to death, stabbed and witnessed grown men throwing serious blows. Rarely was anyone ever beat to death. Some people did die from hitting their heads, but that is stuff that I only heard about....never saw. What I witnessed is that someone gets into a fight and takes an L then comes back later and kills the person and whoever is with them. hell, you can google thousands of videos of grown men fighting on youtube, where no one gets killed. People rarely get killed in fights unless guns or knives get involved. Now, I know people were were hospitalized from brutal fights and you can be killed in fights but guns are generally how people are killed. The people trying to kill you are not "pushing" you....and that i am sure of.
Most people don't want kill someone and most people do not want to go to jail. There is what I call the 2% who you just don't want to ever fck with. They have nothing to lose and you never get into a confrontation with a person with nothing to lose. You cannot treat everyone, however, as if they are the 2% and the 2% is in the context of hood population....meaning 2% of the people in the hood you best better not ever fck with...unless you a 2%er too...everybody else is just trying to survive and avoid death and jail.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 07-24-2018 at 09:15 AM..
Look....I grew up in the hood. I seen people shot to death, stabbed and witnessed grown men throwing serious blows. Rarely was anyone ever beat to death. Some people did die from hitting their heads, but that is stuff that I only heard about....never saw. What I witnessed is that someone gets into a fight and takes an L then comes back later and kills the person and whoever is with them. hell, you can google thousands of videos of grown men fighting on youtube, where no one gets killed. People rarely get killed in fights unless guns or knives get involved. Now, I know people were were hospitalized from brutal fights and you can be killed in fights but guns are generally how people are killed. The people trying to kill you are not "pushing" you....and that i am sure of.
Your perception of every altercation is always irrelevant to the other person's response. Never expect the other guy to respond based on your perceptions.
Even if it doesn't seem like it to you, do not expect him to come up in a calm state of mind. Expect him to be fighting for his life.
I'm in my sixties. I'm too old to get up fast, too likely to go down hard, and too young to die.
I guarantee you, if you put me on the ground I will shoot you.
Your perception of every altercation is always irrelevant to the other person's response. Never expect the other guy to respond based on your perceptions.
Even if it doesn't seem like it to you, do not expect him to come up in a calm state of mind. Expect him to be fighting for his life.
I'm in my sixties. I'm too old to get up fast, too likely to go down hard, and too young to die.
I guarantee you, if you put me on the ground I will shoot you.
Basically your whole thing is kill based upon the assumption that any confrontation means that the person is trying to kill you. That is hood rules, no doubt, but the reason why the murder rate is so high in the hood. If you don't have a problem with the high murder rate that results from such thinking there is not much I can say. However, if you have a problem with high murder rates then you are being hypocritical.
I might even do the same thing.....which is why I avoid those type of citations and confrontations all together. However, if I shot the guy like this guy did......I would expect to serve time for murder....because that is what I did....and as the old saying went "it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six". I would rather do time.....than die.....and so perceptions of threat leads to high rates of murder and become self fulfilling prophecy.
The hood has a kill or be killed mentality. Now it appears that society in SYG states have adopted the same mentality.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 07-24-2018 at 09:35 AM..
The more that's revealed about Michael Drejka, the more I'm convinced this was not just an isolated incident with a tragic outcome. It's just a little tooooooo "convenient".
Drejka has quite a history of waiting in store parking lots then confronting people. When you spend a lot of time lurking in parking lots, the chances of seeing someone wrongfully park in a handicapped space are high.
It's clear to me Drejka looks for fights. He also got into a road rage incident and brandished his gun.
Advocate for the handicapped? Um, no, I don't think so.
He's a thug salivating and creating opportunities to use his gun.
We don't have sound. How do you know he wasn't telling the bully to get lost? All of that will come out in the trial of this murderous crazy crackpot shooter.
We do have the video showing the older guy never turned his head towards the bigger guy approaching.
The more that's revealed about Michael Drejka, the more I'm convinced this was not just an isolated incident with a tragic outcome. It's just a little tooooooo "convenient".
Drejka has quite a history of waiting in store parking lots then confronting people. When you spend a lot of time lurking in parking lots, the chances of seeing someone wrongfully park in a handicapped space are high.
It's clear to me Drejka looks for fights. He also got into a road rage incident and brandished his gun.
Advocate for the handicapped? Um, no, I don't think so.
He's a thug salivating and creating opportunities to use his gun.
Precisely.....and why he should go to jail. I mean....what type of situation are you CHOOSING that you feel you have to carry a concealed weapon? If you have to CC....then maybe its time to rethink your behavior. If you have the type of job that puts you in danger or if you live in an areas that is really high crime.....the only other people carrying guns are those with criminal intentions....those expecting trouble because they are looking for it.
There have been many posts in this thread talking about how, even though the victim didn't come at him once he was down, the guy who was shoved didn't have time to think about whether he would come at him again or not, so he had to shoot.
This is exactly why ordinary citizens should not be allowed to walk around armed. They lack the training of a professional LE, who must qualify to carry his weapon on a regular basis. Even those trained professionals make too many mistakes in this regard--how can we expect the untrained not to?
Who is regulating all of these hotheads who are carrying? How much training is required for someone to get a CC license? How often do we require them to show proficiency in handling their weapons and making quick decisions on whether or not to use them? How often do they have to certify they are qualified to be carrying?
We're arming people who should not be armed. This hothead looking for a fight is the perfect case in point.
But at the time the victim pulled the gun, assailant was at a distance from him and not advancing. Victim waited a few seconds before firing the bullets into the assailant at a distance.
He didn't have to do that for his safety. He could have held him at bay and retreated to safety. Or held the guy there until police appeared.
He may have felt in fear of his life the moment he hit the ground and that fear never left him. He's not Billy the Kid, the "few seconds" is probably the quickest he could get the safety off and get his finger in the trigger.
I just think in general society is in FEAR and GUNS are what people use to mitigate that fear. Guns are meant to be fired and hence people WANT the benefit of the doubt to go to the person in fear with the gun (legally owned and carried) in scenarios such as this, because that is the situation they can see themselves being in....afraid for their life against someone stronger. This is where race comes into it and fear of the big black guy and how Americans are conditioned to see blacks as stronger and more violent. Animal like, if you will. Hence, a person just being black is plausible reason, for many, to be in fear and hence justifies shooting such a person if in a confrontation.
If that isn't the most privileged thing I have ever read here.
You tell my friends, my employees and my neighbors they are seen as animal like by white people, they'll laugh in your face.
I'll bet they live in better houses than your mother's basement and are too busy living it up enjoying life to be worried about what other people think.
I live in South Florida it's the most diverse place I have ever lived.
I don't know anyone who thinks black people are animals/animal like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
Look....I grew up in the hood. I seen people shot to death, stabbed and witnessed grown men throwing serious blows. Rarely was anyone ever beat to death. Some people did die from hitting their heads, but that is stuff that I only heard about....never saw. What I witnessed is that someone gets into a fight and takes an L then comes back later and kills the person and whoever is with them.
That isn't stand your ground. You can not claim you returned to shoot someone dead after a physical altercation because you felt threatened. That isn't how it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant
hell, you can google thousands of videos of grown men fighting on youtube, where no one gets killed. People rarely get killed in fights unless guns or knives get involved. Now, I know people were were hospitalized from brutal fights and you can be killed in fights but guns are generally how people are killed. The people trying to kill you are not "pushing" you....and that i am sure of.
Most people don't want kill someone and most people do not want to go to jail. There is what I call the 2% who you just don't want to ever fck with. They have nothing to lose and you never get into a confrontation with a person with nothing to lose. You cannot treat everyone, however, as if they are the 2% and the 2% is in the context of hood population....meaning 2% of the people in the hood you best better not ever fck with...unless you a 2%er too...everybody else is just trying to survive and avoid death and jail.
Cool story. Stand your ground is for people to decide what is a credible threat to their life and physical being.
Had the woman been armed, and had the man the shooter you take issue with, muttered the words move your car or I'll shoot you, or brandished his pistol to intimidate her, she could have shot the man dead for posing a credible threat to her and her children and her actions would have had my support.
Stand your ground works.
Had he threatened her with great physical harm she would be justified in use of lethal force to terminate her threat. Would you argue against her and would the other mental gymnasts come forth and claimed her actions should be punishable she instigated it by parking in the handicapped space?
Well. Let's take a look at some laws and definitions shall we.
784.011 Assault.—
(1) An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
(2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
784.021 Aggravated assault.—
(1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault:
(a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.
(2) Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
776.012 Use or threatened use of force in defense of person.—
(1) A person is justified in using or threatening to use force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. A person who uses or threatens to use force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat before using or threatening to use such force.
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
(c) “Credible threat” means a verbal or nonverbal threat, or a combination of the two, including threats delivered by electronic communication or implied by a pattern of conduct, which places the person who is the target of the threat in reasonable fear for his or her safety or the safety of his or her family members or individuals closely associated with the person, and which is made with the apparent ability to carry out the threat to cause such harm. It is not necessary to prove that the person making the threat had the intent to actually carry out the threat. The present incarceration of the person making the threat is not a bar to prosecution under this section.
(3) A person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person and makes a credible threat to that person commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
So if it is true this man scoped out parking lots looking for an excuse to shoot someone. He'd have been charged with Aggravated Stalking. Which is why that doesn't pass the smell test. He wouldn't have his CCW either. Felony charges, and misdemeanors that carry the weight of a felony charge = revocation of CCW and 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bear arms.
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