Is it true that rape crimes are judged by how promiscuous the victim is to this capacity? (attorney, Clinton)

[Gusano]

Originally Posted by ironpony

Okay thanks. However, would the men that the victim had sex with in the past be comfortable testifying in open court that they had sex with this person. In court, you cannot introduce a witness statement, unless you actually call a witness to the stand, so therefore, they would have to call all the men who had sex with her to the stand.

So would most men be willing to testify that they had sex with the victim in public court, even though it is personal and private? Wouldn't most men say 'screw that, I'm not going to talk about my sex life in court, just so some rapist can get off", and then therefore, the defense does not have a case?

As another poster said, rape is not about sex. It is an ego trip—doing something to someone helpless to stop it makes some people feel powerful in a sick way.

A woman has the right to say “no” to sex. Her right to say no doesn’t get worn away by the number of men she has sex with or the number of times she has sex. She doesn’t reach some arbitrary limit which, if she exceeds it, she has to have sex with any man who wants it. It doesn’t matter if she sleeps with 1,000 guys, she is under no obligation to sleep with guy 1001. If guy 1001 forces her if she says no, it is rape.


Added: even if she has sex with one guy 1,000 times, if she says no to time 1001 and the guy forces her, it is rape. A woman’s body belongs to her.

[reneeh63]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

That's sometimes how you determine, as best you can, whether the man is actually innocent. You got a 16 year old girl, student leader, cheerleader who states the man grabbed her and put her in the backseat of his car and raped her. I think any DA is going to go forth with that, if there's DNA of a sexual encounter present. You got a woman who has a few arrests for prostitution and has in the past claimed rape but during the investigation it seemed pretty clear she was claiming rape because he didn't pay her what they agreed on. She's claiming rape now.

Do you see the difference? Sometimes, in the investigation, the motivation for the accusation of rape gets a little murky. And as a society, we can't decide that whatever any victim says must be the absolute truth.

Because it isn't always.

And since when are people convicted soley on what they say happened? Who would take that case on? There has to be some other evidence or it would never get to trial.

Your cheerleader example is priceless - does it work as well regardless of race? And can a prostitute be raped is it isn't one of her customers? Just wondering how you come down on that one.

Anyway, the shield laws exist for a reason OP - we're not arguing that.

[jencam]

He's asking how they get the men in to go yeah, I slept with her after we met at a bar. She came on to me. She was a wildcat. Or whatever. Which IDK.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by reneeh63

And since when are people convicted soley on what they say happened? Who would take that case on? There has to be some other evidence or it would never get to trial.

Your cheerleader example is priceless - does it work as well regardless of race? And can a prostitute be raped is it isn't one of her customers? Just wondering how you come down on that one.

Anyway, the shield laws exist for a reason OP - we're not arguing that.

I'm not necessarily opining - just reporting.

And I very specifically didn't say no other evidence. The opposite.

You can decide you think it's fair or not.

It's reality.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by Gusano

As another poster said, rape is not about sex. It is an ego trip—doing something to someone helpless to stop it makes some people feel powerful in a sick way.

A woman has the right to say “no” to sex. Her right to say no doesn’t get worn away by the number of men she has sex with or the number of times she has sex. She doesn’t reach some arbitrary limit which, if she exceeds it, she has to have sex with any man who wants it. It doesn’t matter if she sleeps with 1,000 guys, she is under no obligation to sleep with guy 1001. If guy 1001 forces her if she says no, it is rape.


Added: even if she has sex with one guy 1,000 times, if she says no to time 1001 and the guy forces her, it is rape. A woman’s body belongs to her.

That used to be considered true.

It's not considered true anymore. But people still hang on to it.

If that were true, cases of stranger rape and acquaintance/date rape wouldn't involve victims who are usually young pretty women.

Rape that involves torturing/strangling/dismembering probably falls into the category of wanting power, or a fetish for strangulation, but again, it's most typically young pretty women.

[Gusano]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

That used to be considered true.

It's not considered true anymore. But people still hang on to it.

If that were true, cases of stranger rape and acquaintance/date rape wouldn't involve victims who are usually young pretty women.

Date rape follows the same demographic. You have some outliers where the victim demographic has al little variety, but females who are raped either by strangers or acquaintances/dates tend to be young, attractive women.

And the two are mutually exclusive? Are you saying sex is the only or primary motive?

Here is one link. Granted it was apparently a2006 posting, but I wonder if things changed radically in the interim.

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html



Myth: The primary motive for rape is impulsive sexual desire.
Fact: Studies show that the major motive for rape is power, not sex. Sex is used as a weapon to inflict pain, violence and humiliation. Most rapists appear to have normal personalities with an abnormal tendency to be aggressive and violent. Between 2/3 and 3/4 of sexual assaults are planned in advance.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by Gusano

And the two are mutually exclusive? Are you saying sex is the only or primary motive?

No, I'm not saying that.

For a few decades, it was taught that rape wasn't sexually motivated, it was motivated by the desire to control someone else.

But when you look at the demographics of rape victims, you see a clear propensity for the victims to be young and pretty.

If it were only about power, the victims would be all appearance types and ages.

[Gusano]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

No, I'm not saying that.

For a few decades, it was taught that rape wasn't sexually motivated, it was motivated by the desire to control someone else.

But when you look at the demographics of rape victims, you see a clear propensity for the victims to be young and pretty.

If it were about power, the victims would be all appearance types and ages.

I edited my post above to add a link and an excerpt from it.

[thedwightguy]

Originally Posted by ironpony

I was watching the movie Cape Fear (1991). I know, it's a movie, but in the movie, the lawyer character was worried that his client would beat rape charges, because the victim was promiscuous.

But is a court allowed to decide if a defendant should go free based on a victim's sexual history? In the movie, the lawyer said that he got the report on the victim and the report said that she was promiscuous.

But how would a report say that? Do the people at the hospital who examined the victim hire their own private eyes to go around the whole town with a photo of the victim asking everyone, "have you slept with this person?"

Or is the police department obligated to do this, knowing it is serving in the purpose, of the defense? Where do you get a report on a rape victim's promiscuity from legally?

Almost the same year the movie "Disclosure" came out as well. This is twenty years later. Today, I don't think I'd take a jury trial almost anywhere in N. America. My father in law did his eight years "reeducation" in Mao's Cultural Revolution. The Kmer strangled you on just an accusation. Joe McCarthy ran amok in Washington in the fifties, until he finally imploded. We're hear again.

The promiscuous reputation of the admitted accuser as a crack hoe would just get her EVEN MORE sympathy, and you are the "bad man". It'll pass, but for now...….you're toast.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by Gusano

I edited my post above to add a link and an excerpt from it.

Yes, I saw that. I agree with gusto everything in that list except that rape is motivated only by the desire for power.

(I don't know who put together that list, with "myths" like "rape only happens in large cities". ?? Who thinks that?)

So. Anyway.

If it were the case that rape is motivated only by the desire for power, why would it be that unattractive or older women are much less likely to be raped than attractive younger ones?

(I will grant that rapes of men by men might be motivated primarily by the desire to dominate and humiliate. I'm strictly talking about rapes of women.)

In general, young attractive women are not more likely to be victims of other violent crimes - mugging, carjacking, armed robbery.

Just rape.

And that's one of the reasons why rape is such a real problem on college campuses. Because the demographic of the typical victim is VERY common there, in a very concentrated area. And so services for victims of this crime, and education about rape, should be readily available on college campuses.