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Old 06-25-2019, 12:07 PM
 
447 posts, read 164,348 times
Reputation: 122

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
They do. Their resumes are sent straight to the trash can because IT work is becoming increasingly contractor-driven and project-driven. The number of FTEs here is far smaller than the number of contractors (we're outnumbered at least 2 to 1). The companies doing all the placement for contractors are either big Indian firms (like Infosys) or small boutique outfits run by alumni from big Indian firms. Once they learn the ropes of the OPT & H1B scam all they need to do is leverage connections, pay a lawyer, and spin up the company.


After doing that they'll stack as many H1B applications as they can afford to and pack their ranks with low-paid contract workers, filling in gaps with offshore workers back in India so they can "chase the sun."


I know you see this. Stop lying.

You see someone posting their experience and then out-rightly reject it with your bias.
I have no problem if you wish to live in a bubble and see the world through its glasses.

But keep it to yourself.

At many companies, H1B is associated with higher costs with more risk and headache.
They keep trying to get qualified people, but aren't available.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,370 posts, read 5,142,420 times
Reputation: 3896
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
They do. Their resumes are sent straight to the trash can because IT work is becoming increasingly contractor-driven and project-driven. The number of FTEs here is far smaller than the number of contractors (we're outnumbered at least 2 to 1). The companies doing all the placement for contractors are either big Indian firms (like Infosys) or small boutique outfits run by alumni from big Indian firms. Once they learn the ropes of the OPT & H1B scam all they need to do is leverage connections, pay a lawyer, and spin up the company.


After doing that they'll stack as many H1B applications as they can afford to and pack their ranks with low-paid contract workers, filling in gaps with offshore workers back in India so they can "chase the sun."


I know you see this. Stop lying.


This is absolutely false, and hyperbolic. First of all, H1-B visa workers really aren't they ridiculous cost saving that you're making it out to be. There is a lot more involved with H1-B workers besides just their base salary (which is often comparable to what a US resource would make). For one they require a ton of paperwork, tons of forms, and information about their sponsorship. It can be a challenge to get them onboarded because there is at least 4 to 5x the paperwork needed from them than the average US employee. For the ones overseas, not only does there still remain the issue with proper access across the world. But there are issues with latency and lag as well, at least a decade after we should be over these problems. And the talent overseas just do not compare to the domestic talent here. So as a result most large companies just give offshore dead end projects that have to kept alive. Offshore resources working on very big projects is rare, and if they are they're getting paid what an American would have been getting paid anyway.

It's actually less of a headache to hire domestic, American born talent. The issue is that there aren't enough American software engineers. The ones that do exist are RARELY on the market, or they're not on the market for very long. That's just the reality we're dealing with in the market. I'm a senior software engineer, and to be honest I was between jobs last year for like a week. I started out one Monday with no job prospects, but Thursday I had a full offer in hand. But Tuesday the next week I had 3 offers. 2 of them were fully remote, because they just were having that hard of a time finding qualified people, so they opened the roles up for remote.

The bottomline is that your worldview is limited. You've clearly haven't been out in the market to say the things you're saying.
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:58 PM
 
3,605 posts, read 1,557,204 times
Reputation: 2524
Both bigd and cf, branh are right. I have seen both happening.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:06 PM
 
447 posts, read 164,348 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
Both bigd and cf, branh are right. I have seen both happening.
Exactly.

One shouldn't be of the opinion that he alone is right...rest are all idiots.

We need to interact to enhance our view.....not to forcibly enforce our view on others.


The only loser to not get anything out of the debate is the one that not willing to open up to others' viewpoints.
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,581 posts, read 11,070,781 times
Reputation: 10292
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforger View Post


The only loser to not get anything out of the debate is the one that not willing to open up to others' viewpoints.
New to P&OC I see.
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:35 PM
 
13,016 posts, read 6,227,390 times
Reputation: 10830
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
H1-B workers are entirely necessary. Try hiring an American software engineer, and you're going to have a lot of issues. Everytime we try to hire, the process takes 6 months or more. And the amount of qualified American born talent is insanely low.
Per the bolded --- That sentence is a bald faced lie.

We don't need any H1-Bs at all. That's very obvious. The proof in that is all the companies who lay off their American IT workers and replace them with H1-Bs. To add insult to injury, the Americans have to train their H1-B replacements if they want to receive their severance pay.

Despicable things like that^^^^speak volumes. What it tells us that if H1-Bs are being used to replace Americans, then there is no shortage of qualified American citizen IT workers. In fact, we have many American IT workers who are unemployed and searching for work.

The H1-B visa was created because ostensibly there was a shortage of American IT workers. The H1-B visa was created to be a temporary visa program. The fees paid by applicants were supposed to be used to help Americans get training. After we no longer had a shortage of American IT workers, the visa was supposed to go away.

So...now is the time to abolish the H1-B visa program. It's very clear we no longer need anymore H1-B visa holders.
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Old 06-27-2019, 07:22 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,991 posts, read 32,810,396 times
Reputation: 27521
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
This is absolutely false, and hyperbolic. First of all, H1-B visa workers really aren't they ridiculous cost saving that you're making it out to be. There is a lot more involved with H1-B workers besides just their base salary (which is often comparable to what a US resource would make). For one they require a ton of paperwork, tons of forms, and information about their sponsorship. It can be a challenge to get them onboarded because there is at least 4 to 5x the paperwork needed from them than the average US employee. For the ones overseas, not only does there still remain the issue with proper access across the world. But there are issues with latency and lag as well, at least a decade after we should be over these problems. And the talent overseas just do not compare to the domestic talent here. So as a result most large companies just give offshore dead end projects that have to kept alive. Offshore resources working on very big projects is rare, and if they are they're getting paid what an American would have been getting paid anyway.

It's actually less of a headache to hire domestic, American born talent. The issue is that there aren't enough American software engineers. The ones that do exist are RARELY on the market, or they're not on the market for very long. That's just the reality we're dealing with in the market. I'm a senior software engineer, and to be honest I was between jobs last year for like a week. I started out one Monday with no job prospects, but Thursday I had a full offer in hand. But Tuesday the next week I had 3 offers. 2 of them were fully remote, because they just were having that hard of a time finding qualified people, so they opened the roles up for remote.

The bottomline is that your worldview is limited. You've clearly haven't been out in the market to say the things you're saying.
I've been in this industry for 21 years.


There are some niche programming languages that are in such extreme demand that you can be picked up after only a few days on the market.


The reality for most of the rest of us is very different, particularly once you're over 40.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:28 PM
 
3,605 posts, read 1,557,204 times
Reputation: 2524
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I've been in this industry for 21 years.


There are some niche programming languages that are in such extreme demand that you can be picked up after only a few days on the market.


The reality for most of the rest of us is very different, particularly once you're over 40.
It's a real danger/threat unless you have a stable permenent job. Even skills are secondary once you are iver a certain age.
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Old 06-28-2019, 04:58 PM
 
447 posts, read 164,348 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
It's a real danger/threat unless you have a stable permenent job. Even skills are secondary once you are iver a certain age.
Yeah...the economy has changed.
You have to be more mobile and keep updating yourself.

But at least, you don't have to be an expert.
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Old 06-29-2019, 12:16 PM
 
629 posts, read 241,422 times
Reputation: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforger View Post
Yeah...the economy has changed.
You have to be more mobile and keep updating yourself.

But at least, you don't have to be an expert.

That's easier said than done when "updating oneself" requires tens of thousands of dollars in student loans. It's one thing to gain extra training and brush up on skills, quite another when a whole class of jobs in a country is effectively off limits to its own citizens because they can't underbid far enough on salaries without going broke. Why, out of curiosity, is India's job market so poor that it keeps needing to send millions of its people abroad to take critical jobs in other countries? Isn't a government's main responsibility to provide jobs and support for its own citizens?
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