Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-17-2018, 05:39 PM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,922,865 times
Reputation: 6059

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear View Post
Social security was going broke, but in 1983 Ronald Reagan and house speaker Tip O'neill worked out a deal to shore it up. Something similar needs to be done again, or the system will go go broke.
At the end of the 1980s, 45% of Americans thought SS was going broke and it would not be there for them when they retired. It always hovers around that number. Its just part of corporate propaganda.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2018, 05:55 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
Getting Big Money out of Politics? The problem is that DC is so big that Big Money can talk to the people we can't reach. While we get ignored by the secretaries of the politicians for both parties, the big money lobbyists are having private cocktail parties with our "representatives". That means that they can lobby and buy politicians and then get profit off of sweet deals with the government then donate that money (possibly made off the backs of taxpayers) to buy their way back into office or lobby their way to continuing their own funding, crony capitalist deals, etc.


If you give DC the power to "regulate Big Money", then they will use the laws to hammer the little guys by limiting them while rigging in such loopholes that it will favor the big guys EVEN MORE.


BTW, because of the corruption between big money/lobbyists and DC, I actually am against for-profit prisons. We really should have a separation between public sector and private sector. Death to all social impact bonds!!!!


Social Security and Medicare are going broke. They already spent the money on other stuff and now are funding it partly with IOUs and partly with taxpayer money. In the business world, it would be called a Ponzi scheme. In the government world, sadly, it's just called politics as usual.


As for healthcare as a right, as someone on Medicaid myself, I admit it's better than paying those highway robbery prices for pills that I need when my disability hinders (or so it seems) my ability to get a good paying job. However, I also know that Medicaid tends to goof up each year while getting reauthorization because nobody talks to each other and this year they goofed up and I ended up without meds for a few days (luckily I had some backup ones). Also, I'm not naive enough to think that medical funding and care won't be used as a hostage in government shutdown fights nor that politicians, if times get tough, might cut care or even bring in "death panels" to cut off the "unworthy" to "help the rest of society".
I understand some people think they're being compassionate and kind by advocating for some form of single-payer health care provided by the Fed Gov (à la Medicaid), but the cost for that is an additional $3.2 trillion/year (Urban Institute). How does that get funded? Fed Gov currently spends $4.1 trillion/year, total. How does a bump up to $7.3 trillion/year get funded?

To see how other countries fund their national health care systems, social security, etc., look at the national tax rates typical workers pay in the chart on page 9:

http://www.institutmolinari.org/IMG/...en-eu-2016.pdf

And ask yourself if you think American workers would be willing to pay that much in taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 05:59 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Unless your in the upper echelon of society I have no idea why you would be concerned with higher taxes.
To fund the types of social programs some seem to want the Fed Gov to provide, everyone would have to be hit with higher taxes, not just the "upper echelon of society."

How Other Developed Countries Tax and Spend
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:14 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,922,865 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
To fund the types of social programs some
But only the upper echelons of society would clearly pay more into the system than they use. A working stiff earning $40 000 a year shouldnt worry about somewhat higher taxes when they no longer have to be ripped off for essential services like health, education and child care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:17 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,922,865 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
And ask yourself if you think American workers would be willing to pay that much in taxes.
Americans already pay over 40% of a typical wage anyway when taken into account employer costs of employment. But Americans also have to pay out of pocket for a lot of health care, education, child care and basic safety nets. And hardly any labor rights.

I see that you now claim $3.2 trillion is in ADDITION to what we pay now. LOL, you are beyond help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:26 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But only the upper echelons of society would clearly pay more into the system than they use.
Nope. Read and learn:

How Other Developed Countries Tax and Spend

The type of redistributive social programs you want the Fed Gov to provided have only been successful under either flat or regressive tax systems. Why? Much broader tax base, therefore much more revenue collected. You can't fund them by soaking the rich. It won't generate enough tax revenue.

We don't have the prerequisite tax system here in the US for what you want. This is what ours looks like:

CHART>> Chart: Total Effective Local, State, and Federal Tax Rates, by Income Cohort <<CHART

Data sources for chart: Tax Policy Center and Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, two liberal think tanks...

Federal Tax Rates (includes individual and corporate income tax, payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare, and the estate tax):
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/sites...F/T13-0035.pdf

Local and State Tax Rates (includes state income tax, real estate tax, private property tax, and sales tax):
Executive Summary | The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP)


That's why the US was charted by the researchers as the most progressive tax system in the WaPo article's research analysis. Not coincidentally, the US provides the least in redistributive social program benefits. That's a correlation that holds true when the countries are plotted, as clearly explained in the WaPo research article and chart.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:35 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,922,865 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Nope.
If someone pays $4000 more in taxes and suddenly no longer have to pay $8000 a year in private health care costs, thats a big win. The upper echelons of society will pay a lot more than $4000 in extra taxes per year, thats why they are so against it. They would just pay out of pocket for the health care they need anyway, only the peasants need insurance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:37 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,726 posts, read 44,522,703 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I see that you now claim $3.2 trillion is in ADDITION to what we pay now. LOL, you are beyond help.
I always have said that. It's what the Urban Institute analysis revealed. You know... the left-wing think tank founded by LBJ.

https://www.influencewatch.org/non-p...ban-institute/

So, tell us, Mike... How does that $3.2 trillion/year get collected by the Fed Gov to fund national health care? Impose new taxes on employers and workers? They won't go for that. And you'll be betraying the "working stiffs" you claim to champion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:41 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,922,865 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I always have said that.
Then you are clueless as even anti-single payer think tanks will claim the total costs to cover everyone are $3.2 trillion per year, a saving of $300 billion from the current costs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2018, 06:42 AM
 
13,900 posts, read 9,743,620 times
Reputation: 6856
Conservatives want to defend and expand a broken system that is more expensive and less efficient than single payer. Eventually they will lose this battle and be forced to live it or live with being a minority party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top