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Old 08-20-2018, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,466,073 times
Reputation: 24780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
Comey says Trump spoke about Flynn. Trump said he did not. Which is the truth?

tRump has shown himself to be a complete liar. But Trumplings want to be lied to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
And yet he easily beat your party in the Presidential election. What does that say about how worthless your policies and candidate were?
My goodness, someone has revealed a politician to be a liar. Lets stop the presses and mark the calendar.

And discuss the meaning of the word IS.

What's much more relevant is the meaning of the word treason.


The BEST reality show EVER.


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Old 08-20-2018, 12:44 PM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,487,434 times
Reputation: 4621
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
And you bought it... /sigh

Listen, when Giuliani was discussing what Comey talked about with Trump, what Comey said to Mueller isn't necessarily "fact." When Trump met with Comey, unless there is a tape... there is no "proof" of what was discussed. Trump can't be caught in perjury if he refutes what Comey said. The fact that you think THAT is the perjury trap just shows you buy whatever Giuliani is selling. Giuliani made that argument because people would buy into that line of thinking even though it has nothing to do with the danger of meeting with Mueller.

If Trump refutes Comey, it implies that one of them has committed perjury. But without any facts to back up either side, no decision could be made.

However, let's say that Trump claims he had no idea that his son was meeting with foreign agents to acquire damaging information about an opponent and he declares that statement under oath... and then it is found (for example) in an email chain that Trump responded to Trump Jr "Yeah, take that meeting with the Russians so we can get dirt on Crooked Hillary" - that would be perjury.

Do you see the difference? Too bad Giuliani realizes that most people don't see the difference.

Trump doesn't have to worry about a perjury trap if he tells the truth in regards to instances where there is no solid evidence otherwise. He DOES have to worry if he lies under oath when there is evidence that refutes his statement. In the legal world, for average citizens, the jury decides based on statements on evidence if the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That burden of proof is much higher for the President. Just "statements" won't cut it. They need hard evidence. IMO, Giuliani is concerned that Mueller will get that hard evidence of perjury when Trump makes his statements under oath.
In every case, it's the prosecutor who decides whether a false statement is perjury, a bad memory, interpreting the questions differently, etc..

Using your Comey example, lets say evidence supports Comey. Does that mean Trump committed perjury ? Mueller has the power to decide. A losing proposition for Trump. Mueller can get 100 indictments, send dozens to prison, but without an impeachment or indictment of Trump for something, anything, he'll let down a lot of people and be the guy who won battles but lost the war.

Last edited by jazzarama; 08-20-2018 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:51 PM
 
13,673 posts, read 8,978,585 times
Reputation: 10386
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
Comey says Trump spoke about Flynn. Trump said he did not. Which is the truth?

That is why we have courts of law, with evidence submitted by both sides, and a jury to decide which is the 'truth' based on said evidence. It is not perfect, but such is what we have.



Of course, in a way I agree with Rudy. There is a cartoon I saw recently on which you had two people, standing opposite each other, and looking down at a number between them. The person on the left said "It is a 6", while the person on the right said "No, it is a 9". They both were correct, based on their perspective, while looking at the same numeral.



Of course, my main problem with the President is his 'reckless disregard' for the Truth. To simply make up 'facts' and present them as 'truth' is dishonest. Mr. Trump has access, more than most, to the 'truth' as determined by members of the DOJ, CIA, FBI etc., supported by empirical evidence, yet he will simply deny the findings. He is not looking at a '6' and calling it a '9', he is looking at a '5' and calling it a million.
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:52 PM
 
3,693 posts, read 1,349,096 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
tRump has shown himself to be a complete liar. But Trumplings want to be lied to.





What's much more relevant is the meaning of the word treason.


The BEST reality show EVER.




Comey said Trump spoke about Flynn. Trump said he did not. Which is the truth?
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:03 PM
 
3,693 posts, read 1,349,096 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
In every case, its the prosecutor who decides whether a false statement is perjury, a bad memory, interpreting the questions differently, etc..


Using your Comey example, lets say evidence supports Comey. Does that mean Trump committed perjury ? Mueller has the power to decide. A losing proposition for Trump. Mueller can get 100 indictments, send dozens to prison, but without an impeachment or indictment of Trump for something, anything, he'll let down a lot of people and be the guy who won battles but lost the war.
Muellers investigation was supposed to be about Trump collusion with russia.
But now its come down to who is now saying what about some emails concerning a meeting with a russian lawyer that did not end up with the Trump campaign colluding with russia at all.

Perjury trap.

We launch an investigation claiming you did something. Something you did not actually do but along the way maybe we can catch you lying about some aspect we uncover.

Scooter Libby anyone?

Who did not leak the identity of a CIA agent but was caughf lying about a detail about it.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,466,073 times
Reputation: 24780
Talking You're repeating yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
Comey said Trump spoke about Flynn. Trump said he did not. Which is the truth?

tRump lies. But you WANT to be lied to.



Carry on.


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Old 08-20-2018, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
9,019 posts, read 14,246,248 times
Reputation: 11030
Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee View Post
And yet he easily beat your party in the Presidential election. What does that say about how worthless your policies and candidate were?
My goodness, someone has revealed a politician to be a liar. Lets stop the presses and mark the calendar.

And discuss the meaning of the word IS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:25 PM
 
3,693 posts, read 1,349,096 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
tRump lies. But you WANT to be lied to.



Carry on.


Comey said Trump spoke about Flynn. Trump says he did not. Which is the truth?
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:27 PM
 
3,693 posts, read 1,349,096 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyyc View Post
hy·poc·ri·sy
həˈpäkrəsē/Submit
noun
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:42 PM
Status: "117 N/A" (set 3 days ago)
 
12,920 posts, read 13,611,483 times
Reputation: 9673
Its not a coincidence that lately a number of new words and phrases have entered the political lexicon to euphemize lying.

Alternative facts
Fake News
Perjury trap
Truth that is not the truth

I'm glad its only the Trump supporters who have to keep track of these new words. Everyone else can go with what they learned in pre-school.
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