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Old 09-02-2018, 01:06 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,967 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13677

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
There not even remotely similar.
That's the point. You want to strip public employees of the right/chance to own any of the means of production.
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:32 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
This is nothing but jealousy.

Jeff Bezos was the only person in the world who was able to come up with the idea of Amazon and execute it so perfectly. Therefore, he gets to reap the rewards for doing so. It’s that simple.
You, I.C., Winterfall, N.R. all want to argue theories and generalities but not realities. People argue for things like Capitalism based upon the classroom version, not how it's actually employed.

I ask all the time where is it we find bail outs in Capitalism. No one can answer. For so many that argue against the classroom Socialism they completely back it up when the government employs it when it benefits their politics.

I've pointed out many times that Bezo's only has the amount of money he has because of government programs. He doesn't have the money he has without the government/fed doing everything they can to inflate the markets. That is also not Capitalism.

These programs harmed those who saved and the poor. The argument is that those who benefited the most from government actions should see that those who were harmed also benefit. Was this not the argument? That these actions would "trickle down"?

Now you can argue that the government should have never done this in the first place. I agree. I've argued it for years. None of that matters, they did do it. I find it amazing that the very people who complain about the poor getting welfare also argue that the government giving it to the rich is fine and people need to quit being jealous over the government picking winners and losers.

We can also note that Amazon thrives in part because it's less expensive for a Chinese manufacturer selling on Amazon to send an item to Nebraska than it is for me. This is also not how Capitalism works.
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Old 09-02-2018, 07:09 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,967 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13677
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You, I.C., Winterfall, N.R. all want to argue theories and generalities but not realities. People argue for things like Capitalism based upon the classroom version, not how it's actually employed.

I ask all the time where is it we find bail outs in Capitalism.
I've already told you that the purpose of the bailouts wasn't to save private corporations, it was to save American workers'/retirees' pensions, not the least of which are those of the local, state, and federal public employee/retiree variety. If their pension plan capital investments crash, how do the pensions get paid? Get your head out of the sand.

And you still expect to collect your own pension, no?
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,425,885 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You, I.C., Winterfall, N.R. all want to argue theories and generalities but not realities. People argue for things like Capitalism based upon the classroom version, not how it's actually employed.

I ask all the time where is it we find bail outs in Capitalism. No one can answer. For so many that argue against the classroom Socialism they completely back it up when the government employs it when it benefits their politics.

I've pointed out many times that Bezo's only has the amount of money he has because of government programs. He doesn't have the money he has without the government/fed doing everything they can to inflate the markets. That is also not Capitalism.

These programs harmed those who saved and the poor. The argument is that those who benefited the most from government actions should see that those who were harmed also benefit. Was this not the argument? That these actions would "trickle down"?

Now you can argue that the government should have never done this in the first place. I agree. I've argued it for years. None of that matters, they did do it. I find it amazing that the very people who complain about the poor getting welfare also argue that the government giving it to the rich is fine and people need to quit being jealous over the government picking winners and losers.

We can also note that Amazon thrives in part because it's less expensive for a Chinese manufacturer selling on Amazon to send an item to Nebraska than it is for me. This is also not how Capitalism works.
My criticism is that capitalism never works as advertised, it centralizes labor around a few individuals, it destroys the free markets (big business can’t let demand create supply, they need to create the demand for their supply). It controls and limits labor, it organizes production to only be as efficient as is profitable (when others could use the production to live a healthy happy life), and it controls the input of labor so that it is practiced under an authoritarian model. Any paybacks in investments/derivatives is just meant to circulate money back into the company so they can accumulate more capital and further limit labor freedoms and their vitality to the economy (so they practically become a political power)

This is an example:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7l9Zzlnv-JQ&t=90s

Or if you need to, read The Conquest of Bread. If you care about suffering you have to offer a vision of socialism (society built on social needs, not profit needs) to change or capitalist system to.
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:45 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
We do NOT know if Capitalism works as describe as no one employs it as described.

That might be a fair argument that it doesn't work like most people pretend it does.
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,425,885 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
We do NOT know if Capitalism works as describe as no one employs it as described.

That might be a fair argument that it doesn't work like most people pretend it does.
Capitalism was tried in post colonial Africa.

Big US corps came in, and took control over all the resources and took control over the countries economies.

Nonetheless, we know the affects of the principles of capitalism. Collectivization of capital under a few companies, who use it to control the markets, consumerism, and labor, with feedback to keep giving them more thanks to investment package 'gifts'.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:00 PM
 
34,002 posts, read 17,035,093 times
Reputation: 17186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
This is nothing but jealousy.

Jeff Bezos was the only person in the world who was able to come up with the idea of Amazon and execute it so perfectly. Therefore, he gets to reap the rewards for doing so. It’s that simple.
as it should be.


Businesses succeed when they make good decisions.

Wal Mart chose wisely, built a great Distribution network, kept costs low by avoiding urban property (Just as Southwest Air goes to cities secondary airports), and while Wal Mart did this, it thrived, even as many other discounters who ignored cost control on product movement side bit the dust.

Bezos decisions on Amazon were spot on. He saw via the internet things others failed to see. Of course, the rewards are properly his.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:03 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
as it should be.


Businesses succeed when they make good decisions.

Wal Mart chose wisely, built a great Distribution network, kept costs low by avoiding urban property (Just as Southwest Air goes to cities secondary airports), and while Wal Mart did this, it thrived, even as many other discounters who ignored cost control on product movement side bit the dust.

Bezos decisions on Amazon were spot on. He saw via the internet things others failed to see. Of course, the rewards are properly his.
They kept prices low by throwing out producers like Tupperware for low cost Chinese substitutes.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:07 PM
 
34,002 posts, read 17,035,093 times
Reputation: 17186
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They kept prices low by throwing out producers like Tupperware for low cost Chinese substitutes.
Just part of equation. KMart did that, too.

However, WM had a lower distribution cost as they spent billions developing their own methods, which also translated into reduced selling price capability.

That is why no one consistently sells the same products, same suppliers, and matches WM's price.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:19 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,967 posts, read 44,780,079 times
Reputation: 13677
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They kept prices low by throwing out producers like Tupperware for low cost Chinese substitutes.
Tupperware is a direct sale pyramid scheme company, like Amway, Avon, Mary Kay, etc. If you mean Rubbermade, their products are in fact sold at Walmart. So are Pyrex storage solutions.
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