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Old 09-03-2018, 08:04 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,744,768 times
Reputation: 5007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
By Trump accounts -- and he hasn't been at the table and probably knows little of the details -- just makes stuff up to suit his narrative.

USA/Canada/Mexico all ready to sign in May -- sunset clause popped up -- now USA drops the sunset clause.

Whose the jerk in that?
Who says the US/Canada/Mexico were set to sign in May? Link please.

btw, a 6 year sunset clause is included in the new deal with Mexico, so it wasn't dropped at all.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:09 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,744,768 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
trumps idea of negotiating is to strive for all the cookies in the cookie jar leaving nothing to any one else,only then will he be happy.His clueless bull in a china shop approach will leave many Canadian and American industries suffering.
Your ignorance is amazing. Separate emotion from this issue and you'll see it's quite the opposite. It's Canada that's refusing to share the wealth. They want to protect their dairy, ag, lumber, banking, telcom industries, while we get to protect none. That's not fair. Plus, and most importantly, they want to be able to act as a pass-through for every country in the world, to avoid paying US import taxes. They refuse to compromise on any point of conflict.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,744,768 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The agreement will need to be debated and passed by congress after negotiations are completed, Trump needs to sell this. I don't think he knows the details.
Please see Kibby's post #105 to educate yourself on this point.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:17 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,477,951 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
The new deal has zero subsidies for Ag/Dairy. That's what free trade is all about, no subsidies or tariffs.



Dairy is small potatoes compared to Canada's exclusion of US companies in it's telcom & banking sectors. It all has to go though. The dairy subsidies, the lumber subsidies, telcom, banking and especially....the pass through loophole.

What idiot would believe without any proof offered that Canadian producers of steel or aluminum would tolerate it's own government allowing Chinese product to enter the country and be sold cheaper?

How does that even begin to compute for anyone with even a scintilla of intelligence?

Wilbur Ross and Mattis both have stated more than once, Canada's steel and aluminum do not present a security risk.....but...….Trump uses that lie to forge ahead regardless...…

The subsidies to farmers in the U.S. were paid yearly throughout NAFTA's lifespan in direct contravention of the agreement yet that didn't stop the U.S. doing it to the tune of over twenty billion dollars each and every year.

Multiple third party decisions against the enacting of American tariffs upon softwood...... but....they're enacted regardless. The U.S. imposed tariff placed upon Canadian newsprint found to be illegal......

We could go on all day long about how it's the U.S. consistently and flagrantly violating even the principles of "Free Trade" agreements without impunity...….but......you'd still whine about being the victims of that bad old Canada taking advantage of you when it's the only major trading country you've enjoyed a surplus of trade with.

If by Free Trade you mean allowing American interests unfettered access to all things Canadian with it's noted propensity to wipe out the competition using government subsidies, AKA Boeing back-handers and government pay outs to entities in your MIC to stifle foreign competition. Then indeed, Canada will be better off without any deal at all.
'
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we. 'Til then though, unlike yourselves, all Canadians will have no problem disbelieving anything coming from Trump's demonstrably lesser intelligent of his two orifices.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:37 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,994,029 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Who says the US/Canada/Mexico were set to sign in May? Link please.

btw, a 6 year sunset clause is included in the new deal with Mexico, so it wasn't dropped at all.
It is NOT a 6 year sunset clause -- it is a six year review to exten the deal another 16 years. It's a 16 year sunset clause. It's a subtle but significant difference. The sunset clause was the biggest hurdle for Mexico and USA in previous talks.
0
The United States and Mexico have agreed to a 16-year lifespan for the North American Free Trade agreement, with a review every six years that can extend the pact for 16 years more, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said on Monday.

https://www.marketpulse.com/20180827...6-year-review/


I was using Trump talk -- overstating the situation -- they weren't minutes from signing -- but they all thought they had a deal.

https://www.farmfutures.com/farm-pol...fta-deal-peril

It wasn't hours away but the deal was just about there.

This was well known at the time.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,536,880 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Who says the US/Canada/Mexico were set to sign in May? Link please.

btw, a 6 year sunset clause is included in the new deal with Mexico, so it wasn't dropped at all.
Wrong. The new sunset clause is 16 years, which includes a mechanism where all 3 countries can meet in 6 years, to extend it another 16 years. The 6 year meeting would not end NAFTA, and can't, and you call other people ignorant.

EDIT: Monelli beat me to it.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:44 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,994,029 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
Wrong. The new sunset clause is 16 years, which includes a mechanism where all 3 countries can meet in 6 years, to extend it another 16 years. The 6 year meeting would not end NAFTA, and can't.

EDIT: Monelli beat me to it.
You said it better -- lol.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,676 posts, read 5,521,274 times
Reputation: 8817
https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/s...96819711127557

Very little in the current NAFTA agreement is subject to tariffs. Agriculture tariffs include a 350% tariff on tobacco levied by the U.S.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:32 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,477,951 times
Reputation: 16962
Yeah America keeps claiming they're lily white and being unfairly treated.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amer...tariffs-2010-9

Unshelled peanuts 164% tariff. Canadian tobacco farmers switched over to growing peanuts because tobacco became economically unviable due to those huge American tariffs and guess what happened......tariffs on peanuts.

Trump talking about fair trade is akin to Attila the Hun talking about compassion and charity.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,536,880 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Yeah America keeps claiming they're lily white and being unfairly treated.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amer...tariffs-2010-9

Unshelled peanuts 164% tariff. Canadian tobacco farmers switched over to growing peanuts because tobacco became economically unviable due to those huge American tariffs and guess what happened......tariffs on peanuts.

Trump talking about fair trade is akin to Attila the Hun talking about compassion and charity.
The US has always been disingenuous when it comes to free trade and capitalism. They say they believe in competition, until they lose. They say they believe in capitalism, until a corporate bail out.
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