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It's also important to note that restaurant owners business models set out to cater a certain ethinicity or make up of food.. they are food establishments.. If a restaurant can not serve Thai. .there would be no Thai restaurants and then no on e could get thai food.. There is no "we serve tobacco..come and eat our tobacco establishments" because THAT is not what they are selling or serving. So no business mode every includes "we serve tobacco with our steaks" (yes, cigar bars.. but then smoking in a cigar bar should be allowed .. but should be seperate.. because the name means this is a tobacco selling and themed environment) Whereas an Applebees is not a tobacco environment.. it's sole focus is food.
What part of "it should be up to the owner of the private business" is so difficult to grok?
If you get negative rep simply because someone doesn't agree with you, you can have a mod remove it. You aren't supposed to neg rep someone just for a matter of opinion -- it's supposed to be reserved for flaming, obscenity...inappropriate things like that.
P.S. I repped you too. Not because I agree with you (I don't) but because you're at least giving a polite discussion.
Mostly ..no they don't have the people vote... It's the law makers that should be attending to more important issues..coming up with all these assinine nanny state laws
Thats pretty hysterical, its a figure of speech. I should and everyone else should be able to breath clean air. If you want smoke and die earlier then you would have otherwise then be my guest but your not going to take me with you. The reality is there are more of US (non smokers) then there are of you. Thats why there are smoking bans all over the place.
Smoking is an addiction, the fact that people will go to these lengths to keep it up speaks volumes of just how addicting it is.
Ok why I understand what you are saying it makes no sense..CLEAN AIR lolololololololol...as long as there are cars, buses, trucks, trains, airplanes we are not going to have clean air..cigarette smoke is just a small smoking (no pun intended lol) gun compared to what else pollutes the air
Business owners don't have the right to do whatever they want simply because they privately own their business. Once you open up a business to the public you become subject to many rules and regulations designed to protect customers and employees. I don't have the right to sell alcohol or have naked employees just because I think it would be good for business. there are strict controls on these activities. Tobacco smoke is a substance subject to public safety control (age restrictions and bans) and should be controlled much better so people can live their lives without being exposed to it. I used to smoke and I supported the CA ban at that time, I recognized that I didn't have the right to endanger others because of my bad habit.
What an interesting thread. It *is* nice to see people discussing this with relative respect and civility.
I'm a smoker, and in my own humble opinion, quite a considerate one. I'm also a firm believer in private establishments being able to set their own rules in terms of whether to allow smoking or not, and in what capacity.
I'm going to use an example from Vancouver, Canada, since it's something that's quite timely and will be affecting me. The principles are precisely the same as those that have appeared in the US.
On March 1, a complete indoor smoking ban will be going into effect in the city of Vancouver. And, while I'm sure that there will be a whole bunch of people cheering profusely, I know of at least one establishment that will suffer quite greatly as a result. The curling club that I belong to has a smoking room with separate ventilation. It's one of the few places in the city where you can drink, smoke, socialize and remain dry all at the same time.
Does the smoke affect others? Only if they wish to come into the room and chat with the fun people. Seriously, though, since there is separate ventilation, it's a non-issue for those who don't want to be exposed.
The club makes a tremendous amount of money from its alcohol sales, and a LOT of those sales go to the smokers hanging out in that room. Without that room, there will be quite a few people who will be spending a lot less time (and money) at the club. The club *will* suffer. That's a fact.
As a private establishment, with a dedicated smoking room to boot, it makes absolutely no sense to me that the government would stick its nose in. Their righteousness will lead to others suffering financially. But, what does it matter if "the people" know that this curling club is completely "smoke free"?
This is something that has happened in so many places. It seems tremendously short-sighted to me.
Yes, I know about the "evils of smoking". Probably far too well, actually. But, as a smoker, and more importantly, as a person who lives in a free society, I have issues with protecting those people who also have the freedom to go where they want at the expense of people's livelihoods.
As someone who has frequented lots of establishments in more "temperate zones", I've seen lots of outdoor, enclosed "smoking areas". Wonderful things those are. And, sure enough, the locations where LOTS of people seem to congregate. They're looking to take those out as well. Because, you know, making people walk 25 feet from a doorway to smoke is in the "best interest" of society. Somehow. I don't get that one either...
As I said initially, I consider myself a "considerate smoker". But, more than that, I'm a believer in a free market society, and allowing businesses to form their business models in the best way they can, within the confines of the law. Making laws like these impedes that ability, for no good reason that I can see.
If you don't want to breathe in second-hand smoke, don't go into these places. And, really, don't whine about there being dedicated smoking areas either. I *do* realize that people tend to congregate in these areas, but, that's their choice, as it is yours not to go in.
Here's the problem with your proposition. As a business owner, you are concerned about money, making a living and making sure your business thrives. If this decision is put in the business owners hands, they most certainly are going to go with allowing smoking, as not to lose the smokers business. It seem allowing smoking is more cost productive from a business standpoint.
With business not wanting to alienate smokers, they are going to allow it, leaving the nonsmokers choices severely limited in seeking out a nonsmoking establishment, that is unless I want to settle for fast food. Think about it, a smoker smokes due to addiction, as a business owner, I want to exploit that addiction
How can you assume everyone will go smoking when purely 60% of the country does not smoke, thats giving the higher side of percentages as smokers..........at 40% lets say............there are plenty of leftwing wacks out there who would maintain a smoke free establishment......like the oxygen bar of woody harrelsons................your argument is a fear that everyone if given free choise will go smoking.........but on the smokers side their fear is REALITY and you find that ok. So if you allow market forces which is called capitalism to make the decision your against it............ free will and choise is the actual issue but not for a nanny mentality.......they are by definition socialists and love govmnt forced control at every level of life......... point here is that capitalism takes into account peoples wants, likes , dislikes and so on.......but if you get a limited amount of smoke free places to go to after the bans are repealed you can blame the back to smoking bonanza on yourselves for trying to control such a vast amount of the publics lives.
But even still youll still have a choise in non smoking bars and restaraunts where as now us smokers have NONE.............. reread for yourself what compromise and fairness mean...........it surely doesnt mean prohibition
For the record, I'm not a smoker and I never have been. As far as smoking bans go, I'm "for" them if they are in a public place where people have to involuntarily be -- such as schools, hospitals, courthouses, etc. Places that people don't HAVE to be -- stadiums, bars, restaurants, and so on should not fall under the ban. If I don't want to smell smoke, I won't go someplace that there are smokers. I don't see why that is so difficult.
and many of these places were trying to accomodate both by having smoking & non smoking areas..guess that just wasn't enough for the non smoking advocates...
youll find that across the board its the leftwing of the democrat party that imposes the bans. But at the same time many liberal republicans and some conservatives have been the deciding vote in approving smoking bans.........however it is the republicans in most instance and conservative democrats that have protected the peoples rights as in virginia recently where a statewide ban was killed.............also kentucky is approving 8 casinos for the state and that means there will not be any smoking bans in kentucky for the forseeable future unless they include casino excemptions.
las vegas showed that bans destroy business especially the casino and bingo business...........so Id say the economic impact of bans is telling some states '' Hey if we allow smoking and keep tobacco taxes low and have gambling. We are gonna make all the money and our revenue coffers will flow to overflowing, while all the idiot states surrounding us go belly up across the board". Thats a plan worthy of implementing making money off the stupidity of other states.....
BINGO
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Seriously, though, since there is separate ventilation, it's a non-issue for those who don't want to be exposed. 
