Native American construction worker fired for not attending weekly Bible classes (federal, vote)
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It's not individual freedom, but unjustifiable authority, with which I have a problem -- and I am verdammt proud of that attitude.
My objection is to a power-obsessed individual exercising his/her authority over issues (specifically, religion, nationalism, sexuality and personal mode of living) which ought to remain private matters.
it is a private matter. You don't own the mans business.
How can you have libertarian in your tag line and not understand property rights?
UK law is outside jurisdiction. This happened in the US, so US Law applies.
This is the law for all 47 countries in the EU and whilst US Law might be different employess still have rights.
In terms of the US -
Quote:
FREEDOM OF THOUGHT & THE FIRST AMENDMENT
The United States Supreme Court has recognized:
"Freedom of thought... is the matrix, the indispensable condition, of nearly every other form of freedom. With rare aberrations a pervasive recognition of this truth can be traced in our history, political and legal" (Palko v. Connecticut (1937) 302 U.S. 319, 326-27.)
Without freedom of thought, the First Amendment right to freedom of speech is moot, because you can only express what you can think. Constraining or censoring how a person thinks (cognitive censorship) is the most fundamental kind of censorship, and is contrary to some of our most cherished constitutional principles.
I think seemingly in some cases. Take muslims for instance, wearing a silly costume, praying 5 times a work day, refuse to handle pork and alcohol products etc. It's never just about the religion, race etc but everything that comes with it.
Well of someone is Muslim or whatever and cannot do the job because it requires them to do things that are against their religion the should not take the job. You That is very different than an employer saying you have to go to bible classes or you are fired.
Wow, what a piece of work you are. This is your response below. Yes, you were calling her a liar, plain and simple where you mention dishonest people Calling someone a dishonest lair is against the tos rules.. Now add this poster to your long list of folks you lie about ....then put on ignore
ORIGINALLY posted by pknopp "Another in a long list to ignore. I hope that posts like yours are simply posted to increase post counts. I'd hate to think there are as many dishonest people as there are dishonest posts."
This is the law for all 47 countries in the EU and whilst US Law might be different employess still have rights.
In terms of the US -
Yes. And you don't address the point.
A book is just a book, unless, YOU feel it is more than just a book.
So requiring a person to study a book (or series of books) can be the sole issue. You cannot be forced to believe a book is religious unless you already believe the religion has merit. If you believe a religion has merit then you're already a believer in that religion (of some quantity), thus are not being forced to believe anything (and no violation of freedom of belief). If you don't believe it has merit, you're still not being forced to believe anything, because you're just taking part in a pointless study of literature (and there's no one who has worked for more than 5 years who has not studied something worthless).
Finally if you contractually agree to certain activities for employment, up front and openly disclosed. You should not agreed to it, then have grounds for complaint later. The contract should be between the employer and employee, there's no need to insert government in there.
It is not illegal to require bible study as part of a job duty.
We all know it's 1 hr or less of every work day
allowing a very wanted break in an industry that will tear your body apart
Federal law says this:
Facts About Religious Discrimination.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion (or lack of religious belief) in hiring, firing, or any other terms and conditions of employment.
Pretty clear the employer cannot require daily bible study. It could have been optional. The employer should have allowed him to have free time for an hour and not required religious attendance. And someone cannot be fired for refusing to take part in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleSonya
physical labor, which is really rough on the body
My husband would've loved an hour break out of 8 hrs a day!!!
Any rational person would!!
Just to sit and "study"
But he's 57 now, owns the company, and is not a christian.
If anyone is fired for not adopting that belief system
then it's went beyond just "a study"
It's indoctrination, a belief system you live and enact
your entire shift.
I used to buy, rehab and sell houses. Did it for years. I do agree that there is a huge problem with substance abuse as well as criminal records among construction workers. And this employer means well. But he took it way too far. Employers need to know what the employment laws are. And if you are not sure consult an attorney. No excuse for breaking the law even if you think you are doing it for good reasons.
Bible Study doesn't belong at work. Yet many things do not belong at work.
Not seeing the hubbub here. Guy obviously doesn't want to work so is now robbing his employer blind because he is so offended about being asked to study the bible. Not a good reason. Just quit your job, buddy and get a new one. Except that would require him to work.
Native American heritage was mentioned as some kind of buzz word to help his case. This has nothing to do with his ethnicity
I used to buy, rehab and sell houses. Did it for years. I do agree that there is a huge problem with substance abuse as well as criminal records among construction workers. And this employer means well. But he took it way too far. Employers need to know what the employment laws are. And if you are not sure consult an attorney. No excuse for breaking the law even if you think you are doing it for good reasons.
The person who took it too far is the employee trying to rob a productive, hard working member of society, blind. No excuse. No workplace will adhere to employment laws perfectly. No excuse to rob a company blind looking for loop-holes.. If you are going to focus on wrongs committed, focus on the mountains, not the mole-hills
A book is just a book, unless, YOU feel it is more than just a book.
So requiring a person to study a book (or series of books) can be the sole issue. You cannot be forced to believe a book is religious unless you already believe the religion has merit. If you believe a religion has merit then you're already a believer in that religion (of some quantity), thus are not being forced to believe anything (and no violation of freedom of belief). If you don't believe it has merit, you're still not being forced to believe anything, because you're just taking part in a pointless study of literature (and there's no one who has worked for more than 5 years who has not studied something worthless).
Finally if you contractually agree to certain activities for employment, up front and openly disclosed. You should not agreed to it, then have grounds for complaint later. The contract should be between the employer and employee, there's no need to insert government in there.
It's not just a book it's a religious text and you have the right to your own freedom mof thought and not to have the religion of others imposed on you.
Contracts are irrelevant and meaningless of they don't ahere to laws, human rights and a countries constitution.
In terms of forcing someone to attend bible classes this may also be seen as discriminatory against non-christians, as well as contravening Article 9 in relation to relgion and freedom of thought.
You can't dismiss someone because of their religion, you can't force them to practice another religion or bully or discrimnate against them, nor can you advertise for job applicants of one religion or state in a contract any of these criteria and that's the law, a contract stating otherwise is illegal.
It's best to actually read the law, not just quote it.
Facts About Religious Discrimination.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion (or lack of religious belief) in hiring, firing, or any other terms and conditions of employment.
This doesn't address requiring an hours worth of bible study as a daily work task. If they were to fire that person over their personal religious convictions, or lack there of, then that would apply. OR if some employees were singled out for bible study, then you may be able to apply it. Again, READ it before posting to correct someone. It is a very clear, and specific law. people have their right to their own religious beliefs, requiring "a study" of any religion doesn't impeed that.
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