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Old 09-04-2018, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
9,439 posts, read 10,722,102 times
Reputation: 15903

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I would favor having prisoners pick up trash along the road, personally.
This is the type of work they should be doing. They should never be used to do jobs in the real world where they do undermine the availability of jobs for law abiding citizens. Picking up litter, growing their own food, or just breaking big rocks into Little Rock’s on a chain gang is what prisoners should do with their time.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:11 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,905,506 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
They are convicts removed from society because of their uncivilized actions. I say they work to feed themselves. Otherwise they can starve.
But they are not removed from society. They are competing against the working class of America, making furniture, selling cattle and taking hotel reservations for 20 cents an hour.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:19 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,905,506 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
This is the type of work they should be doing. They should never be used to do jobs in the real world where they do undermine the availability of jobs for law abiding citizens. Picking up litter, growing their own food, or just breaking big rocks into Little Rock’s on a chain gang is what prisoners should do with their time.
With a for-profit prison industry and 20c an hour prisoners with no labor rights working for private corporations, their jobs will be dictated by the demands of the corporation. And this is an excellent way to make profit. Even illegals cant work for anywhere near that wage and survive.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,464,283 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
This is the type of work they should be doing. They should never be used to do jobs in the real world where they do undermine the availability of jobs for law abiding citizens. Picking up litter, growing their own food, or just breaking big rocks into Little Rock’s on a chain gang is what prisoners should do with their time.
Playing Devils advocate for a moment...

Should prisoners entering prison after committing crime as a means of employment, be left to do remedial tasks and become welfare dependent upon release, or would it be beneficial for them to learn a skill, a trade? That way upon release, they are not left to be told oh, you're a former felon? Yeah, no, we aren't going to hire you...

The premise of the OP of this being a threat to American workers... I'm not sold on it.
There are many things that are a threat to American workers.
Like Boomer/Corporatists hiring practices-You must have X degree Y years of experience for Z pay, otherwise if you're lucky you start out as an intern or mid-level if you show you know your stuff at intern level pay.
Managers who are tasked with hiring qualified candidates farming that responsibility out to job recruiters/HR who are clueless for what exactly a qualified candidate for the position is.
Then of course illegal immigrants and visa holders that will do it for less.

A big help for those entering the work force would be less dependency on an expensive college degree, and more earn and learn programs.
Me? I will hire someone on with 0 experience, no requirement for a college education.
I will mold them to be productive and proficient, and pay them to learn.
Their pay will increase reflecting their progress in proficiency and productivity. Thats a whole different topic of discussion in of itself.

As for prison labor... consider this.
You pay to house feed clothe medically treat inmates through taxes.
Would you rather continue paying to support the prisoner upon release since they have a strike against them, and sat in the clink to learn how to become a better criminal? Or... would you rather they learn a trade/skill to seek gainful self sustaining employment and through prison labor, be taught a skill, be taught a trade, learn to take pride in their work, develop a work ethic, be rehabilitated so they aren't turning to easy money via crime and looking over their shoulder for police, rival gang, etc?

I don't have a problem with seeing Americans who screwed up, pay their debt back by serving time, and learning a trade or skill while in the steel bar motel, so that they may become employed when paroled/released.
To simply say you screwed up you don't deserve another chance here's welfare section 8 medicare food stamps/EBT is just yet another expense to the tax payer...
Seems counter productive in the long haul.

I would say it's beneficial for a parolee/released prisoner to have a sustainable job upon release. Or a skill to gain employment. Prisoners are Americans too right?
Or is it once they get pinched for committing a crime life should end and they should go back to being a drag on the tax payer with being dependent upon welfare for sustenance?

If I had it my way... prison labor would be building bridges paving roads going into cities/towns with condemned buildings, buildings that need work, and they'd be repairing them. My County has alot of properties in delinquency. That's tax revenue to perform upkeep/maintenance on. Not bank owned. County owned. Defaulted on for taxes. Most of those vacant properties get vandalized. Then go to auction and sell for pennies.
Why not teach inmates in the county lock up to be carpenters, masons, roofers, plumbers, electricians, landscapers, HVAC technicians etc? That way upon release they can support themselves, rather than turn to slinging dope, stealing things, stolen identity, fraud etc...
Use them for habitat for humanity building project. Use them to paint over graffiti, spruce up slums, restore/repair buildings. Or build the wall
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:14 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,905,506 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
Playing Devils advocate for a moment...

Should prisoners entering prison after committing crime as a means of employment, be left to do remedial tasks and become welfare dependent upon release, or would it be beneficial for them to learn a skill, a trade? That way upon release, they are not left to be told oh, you're a former felon? Yeah, no, we aren't going to hire you...

The premise of the OP of this being a threat to American workers... I'm not sold on it.
There are many things that are a threat to American workers.
Like Boomer/Corporatists hiring practices-You must have X degree Y years of experience for Z pay, otherwise if you're lucky you start out as an intern or mid-level if you show you know your stuff at intern level pay.
Managers who are tasked with hiring qualified candidates farming that responsibility out to job recruiters/HR who are clueless for what exactly a qualified candidate for the position is.
Then of course illegal immigrants and visa holders that will do it for less.

A big help for those entering the work force would be less dependency on an expensive college degree, and more earn and learn programs.
Me? I will hire someone on with 0 experience, no requirement for a college education.
I will mold them to be productive and proficient, and pay them to learn.
Their pay will increase reflecting their progress in proficiency and productivity. Thats a whole different topic of discussion in of itself.

As for prison labor... consider this.
You pay to house feed clothe medically treat inmates through taxes.
Would you rather continue paying to support the prisoner upon release since they have a strike against them, and sat in the clink to learn how to become a better criminal? Or... would you rather they learn a trade/skill to seek gainful self sustaining employment and through prison labor, be taught a skill, be taught a trade, learn to take pride in their work, develop a work ethic, be rehabilitated so they aren't turning to easy money via crime and looking over their shoulder for police, rival gang, etc?

I don't have a problem with seeing Americans who screwed up, pay their debt back by serving time, and learning a trade or skill while in the steel bar motel, so that they may become employed when paroled/released.
To simply say you screwed up you don't deserve another chance here's welfare section 8 medicare food stamps/EBT is just yet another expense to the tax payer...
Seems counter productive in the long haul.

I would say it's beneficial for a parolee/released prisoner to have a sustainable job upon release. Or a skill to gain employment. Prisoners are Americans too right?
Or is it once they get pinched for committing a crime life should end and they should go back to being a drag on the tax payer with being dependent upon welfare for sustenance?

If I had it my way... prison labor would be building bridges paving roads going into cities/towns with condemned buildings, buildings that need work, and they'd be repairing them. My County has alot of properties in delinquency. That's tax revenue to perform upkeep/maintenance on. Not bank owned. County owned. Defaulted on for taxes. Most of those vacant properties get vandalized. Then go to auction and sell for pennies.
Why not teach inmates in the county lock up to be carpenters, masons, roofers, plumbers, electricians, landscapers, HVAC technicians etc? That way upon release they can support themselves, rather than turn to slinging dope, stealing things, stolen identity, fraud etc...
Use them for habitat for humanity building project. Use them to paint over graffiti, spruce up slums, restore/repair buildings. Or build the wall
But some type of apprenticeship for prisoners is not what this is about though. Providing prisoners with a broad range of skills or education to make them employable upon release is fine, but creating Bangladeshi sweatshops in America undermining the American working class is not OK.
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:50 AM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,449,365 times
Reputation: 15329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PilgrimsProgress View Post
I've always been in favor of prisoners being used in medical experiments, especially those on death row or with life sentences. They can volunteer in exchange for extra money or gifts. It's the perfect environment because you can control every element of their lives to get more consistent outcomes. If they die it's not a big deal. Why have poor students or poor people in general risk their lives?
This kind of thing was done in the past (in secret though), Prisoners were given LSD, heroin, etc in some of the experiments.

Im sure this still goes on to some extent, but I doubt anyone would ever go record to talk about it though.
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Old 09-04-2018, 11:04 AM
 
4,559 posts, read 1,420,027 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Try to do a higher level job than what a prisoner who likely dropped out by 7th grade can do.
With the Trump/ DeVos elimination of public schools the government will determine who goes to prison and who doesn't. Wipe out competition gained thru education.
Corrupt incorporate all of America.
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Old 09-04-2018, 03:56 PM
 
Location: PSL
8,224 posts, read 3,464,283 times
Reputation: 2963
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But some type of apprenticeship for prisoners is not what this is about though. Providing prisoners with a broad range of skills or education to make them employable upon release is fine, but creating Bangladeshi sweatshops in America undermining the American working class is not OK.
Tell me your opinion on requiring a BS degree, and 3-5 years experience on top of that to be considered for employment or else its Bangladeshi sweatshop pay for a college graduate, considering costs of living.

Did you even read what you wrote?
You're contradicting yourself.

That or you're a trust fund baby and never worked a day in your life, no problem just pointing something out here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But some type of apprenticeship for prisoners is not what this is about though. Providing prisoners with a broad range of skills or education to make them employable upon release is fine,
OK that's fine you don't have a problem with that. So what's the issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
but creating Bangladeshi sweatshops in America undermining the American working class is not OK.
How do you expect them to learn a skill/trade without performing it?

I could tell you how to do head gaskets on a 6.0 diesel.
You would not be able to do it without having done it yourself.
How would you be able to perform a task without ever being shown how to do it? Or learning how to do it without screwing it up?
Same with making granite counter tops. Same for building a roof or any other trade I've had my hands in, without performing the work how will you be able to do it?

Furthermore. Can you prove beyond doubt this is a threat or in fact undermines American workers? Because I can surely prove the hiring practices that boomers/Corporatists love so much are in fact undermining to the American worker.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Richmond
1,645 posts, read 1,204,715 times
Reputation: 1776
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
But some type of apprenticeship for prisoners is not what this is about though. Providing prisoners with a broad range of skills or education to make them employable upon release is fine, but creating Bangladeshi sweatshops in America undermining the American working class is not OK.
For the 3rd time link to where you are getting this information otherwise it is Opinion.


Again to address your concerns, my sister makes more money than I do, her job as a nurse is listed as straight hourly, she gets paid more, but does not have any medical coverage, she had to foot the bill entirely her self, my sister does not get vacation pay nor sick pay. If she is sick or out on vacation she looses money. The only way she can take time off is to have previously built up enough time worked as not to loose too much on her pay check.


I get 4 weeks vacation per year, and I get 2 weeks sick time per year, I also have heath insurance that I pay into per pay period, that is cheaper than my sister pays for. When you add all of the benefits that I get compared to what my sister gets the pay comes out to be about the same.


Now these prisoners everything that I have to pay to live on is covered for them, so the very meager wage that the are being paid is only part of the equation, the other part is their very living expenses.


I truly don't understand your problem. Someone weather it is a corporation or the taxpayers are paying to have these people housed.
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Old 09-04-2018, 04:57 PM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,961 posts, read 19,420,652 times
Reputation: 25438
The working class should demand that their tax dollars not be used to pamper criminals.
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