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Y'all may be surprised to learn that in England, Canada, and other countries with easier lower cost access to health care, that unlike the US system the money earned by doctors is an incentive to work hard, perform better and to take cases which are difficult at all times of the day or night. If you have a medical emergency in another country it won't be the attending (the top supervising doctor) it will be an intern and a 2nd or 3rd year resident. The money that would be earned by the doctor here for coming to the hospital quickly is an incentive and since that does not occur in countries with "socialized" medicine there is little to no incentive for interrupting Sunday afternoon tea.
As an R.N. of many years you may also be surprised to learn that doctors routinely work 12 hour shifts 7-12 days in a row. It creates continuity and superior care for the patients as the doctor comes to know them very well. Physicians are dedicated. In those years I've rarely seen a doctor who does not care so reducing fees and income to gain more "caring" doctors is specious and unsupportable.
Finally, I will tell ya that these men and women are bright sometimes genius level and it is a privilege to work with them. Their knowledge base of diseases and injury is encyclopedic. The training around the world is very similar as well. Ive worked with doctors from France, Cuba, West Africa, South Africa and most or the states, China, Japan and other countries including Russia and Spain.There is a consistency between the training in those countries which has impressed me.
I chime in not to cast pearls but to educate those who are curious about the real deal.
And that is one of the reasons why our healthcare system is as screwed up as it is and why we won't embrace universal healthcare.
That's true, but doctors also have a lot of legitimate business expenses. A doctor is actually the boss of a small company; he pays the salaries of his nurses, assistants, office staff, their insurance, and all the other stuff, like the office equipment, all the medical equipment, the lights, heat and water, and everything else.
And he's the only income generator for them all. So a big hunk of your bill just goes in one of his hands and out the other. And most doctors didn't take up their profession to become a businessman. So some aren't real good at that job.
The real problem with our health care system is it's for profit. So a medical practice has to make a profit or it fails.
The non-profit hospitals do not need to be profitable to survive. But non-profit hospitals here in the US aren't any cheaper for the patients. The money still needs to come from somewhere. Only a few of the very best non-profits can land the high-paying research contracts from the industrial pharmaceutical companies.
And research doesn't come cheap either, so those companies charge us more for our prescribed medicines.
It's not like that in countries that have universal single-payer health care. Everyone kicks in for their health care with their taxes, and the healthy pay less and receive less care.
The government pays the doctors and all the others a good living, but they don't get the gross income they get here, and the cost of their expensive education isn't nearly as high, as it's partly amortized by the government, and the government also pays for part of new facilities.
So the costs are probably still the same overall, but are spread out into a far larger pond, and everyone takes a smaller hit in the long run.
There are problems with universal health care. One is the doctors seldom want to go practice out in some remote small town where there's little excitement or career stimulation. And government administration isn't always the best or most uniform when there is no need for the best performance.
And the wealth of a nation has a lot to do with how good its medicine is. A poor nation can have a very good basic health program for its citizens, but can be unable to provide the very best and latest medical equipment and facilities.
Even if a nation is wealthy, population size and geography can still overwhelm a national health program. A country in Eurasia can be very wealthy, but it's location breeds diseases like crazy. No one has cures for all our diseases. A new virus can overwhelm any nation, no matter how rich it is or what it's health care system is.
So there's no perfect answer to medical costs. There never will be.
Well, one of many reasons. Another is that consumers are too lazy to comparison shop. Another is that there are too many intermediary administrators. Another is that consumers are too quick o sue.
And you can bet the farm that anything not controlled by the AMA was deemed quackery, regardless of its efficacy.
*acupuncture
*osteopathy
*chiropractic
And you can believe that bought and paid for hatchet job !
What makes you think that a license to commit manslaughter without criminal liability insures competence?
If that was true, why would there be civil suits for malpractice?
PUH-lease.
I've seen my share of incompetent 'licensed' demigods of medicine who put casts on wrong, made inaccurate diagnoses, and were obligated to follow procedures that they knew were approved but worthless, lest they risk censure by 'the system.'
Personally, I'd prefer total deregulation of the medical field, and the end to "controlled substances."
Instead of malpractice insurance, satisfaction guaranteed, or your money back!
- - -and nothing more.
OH, and zero public subsidy, too.
LET'S RESTORE HEALTH CARE AS A RIGHT - NOT A GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED PRIVILEGE!
Given your interests in this, why not try for medical school yourself?
Wow, what a classic example of propaganda and disinformation.
You intentionally neglected to tell people that Warren Buffet does not pay himself a salary or wages.
And he doesn't need to. If Buffet wants $1 Million (or more) all he has to do is make a few clicks with his mouse to sell 100,000 shares of stock, and he has $1+ Million in cash to do what he pleases.
Since Buffet has no earned income, he does not pay federal income tax.
He does pay the 15% Capital Gains tax on the sale of his stocks, bonds, futures contracts and real estate.
That's why Buffet paid less in all taxes than his secretary did, because his secretary has a salary, while he does not.
You intentionally neglected to tell people that only 3% of all US businesses are publicly-traded corporations, and that they employ only 5.8% of all workers, which is a little less than 9 Million workers out of 156,007,000 workers.
Not only did you cherry-pick a small percentage of CEOs for propaganda purposes, you also intentionally neglected to tell people that CEOs are not paid entirely in cash.
Yes, it's true that the CEO for Anthem Blue Cross was paid $23 Million one year, but it's also true that he was paid $7 Million in cash and $16 Million in Anthem Blue Cross stock options.
So your claim that CEOs make 300x what worker make is false.
Not only are you cherry-picking 3% of all CEOs, you're cherry-picking a small percentage of that 3%, because some CEOs of publicly-traded corporations only earn $1 Million to $3 Million annually, including stock-options.
And you're including non-cash compensation.
Comparing the total compensation package of a CEO to only the hourly wage of a worker is a false comparison.
To make a comparison that is not disingenuous, then you need to include the total compensation for employees, instead of merely their hourly wages.
To calculate the total compensation for employees, you would need to add together the hourly wage, the total value of State unemployment benefits, the total value of federal unemployment benefits, the total value of worker's compensation benefits, the total value of Social Security benefits, the total value of healthcare benefits, and all other compensatory benefits.
The amount CEOs are paid is totally irrelevant.
Since only 5.8% of workers work for a publicly-traded corporations, that means 94.2% of workers will not benefit from any scheme to cap or reduce the compensation of CEOs.
Those 5.8% of workers who work for a publicly-traded corporation would not see a wage increase if CEO compensation was capped. If you capped CEO compensation at $2 Million for example, the other $5 Million paid to the CEO of Anthem Blue Cross would not go to workers, rather it would be kept as cash reserves, or used to buy back stocks, or used to pay down debt, or used for capital investments.
Even if that weren't true, the money still wouldn't go to the workers, instead it would be spread around upper level management, like the COO, CFO, CSO, the presidents and vice-presidents, project managers and other managers.
So, stop with the propaganda already.
Steve Jobs played that game of taking $1 salary to avoid income tax, but Buffett has taken $100K salary for years. He does pay taxes. He's also giving almost all his money to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. This is a guy who still lives in the modest home he bought in the 1950's in Nebraska.
I get what you're saying but he's not the best example because he doesn't live the way other wealthy people do.
One reason our healthcare system is screwed up is because people like you don't know what they're talking about.
A universal healthcare system is any system that covers that vast majority of the population, but not all universal healthcare systems cover 100% of the population.
The UK's system actually does cover 100% of the population, but Germany's system only covers 98%.
There are many other universal healthcare systems that cover 95% to 100% of the population.
Technically, Obamacare is universal healthcare, since it provides a mechanism that allows all persons to be covered.
The fact that 8.6% of the population have rejected health plan coverage through their employer, or through Obamacare or have not obtained it through their own devices does not mean Obamacare is not universal.
Universal healthcare comes in various forms.
The UK, Portugal, Spain and Sweden use the Beveridge Model, where the government owns the hospitals and all healthcare facilities, and all healthcare providers are government employees. The costs are paid out of the government's budget via tax revenues. When the government is strapped for cash, medical services suffer. Some States like Sweden now allow private facilities and private insurance to meet the healthcare needs of people.
Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Austria and others use the Bismarck Model. Hospitals and healthcare facilities are privately owned, even though lower levels of government like cities, counties, departments (France) and prefectures (Italy) might own and operate a hospital, and that is usually in rural areas (yes, even Germany has rural areas). The government sponsors private insurance plans, which are paid by government, unions and employers. Again, the trend in those countries has been to allow private insurance to meet healthcare needs.
The Government Insurance Model is a scheme used by Canada, Taiwan, Korea, some Euro-States and other countries. The government functions as the insurance provider, while hospitals and medical facilities are privately owned, although again, lower levels of government may operate hospitals, typically in rural areas.
Adopting a universal healthcare system does not automatically lower the salaries of doctors and healthcare providers. It depends on which system is actually used.
Although almost all Canadians believe hospitals are publicly owned and accountable institutions, under provincial legislation 95% operate on a non-profit basis. Most of Canada's approximately 850 hospitals are owned and operated by non-profit, voluntary organizations.
Athletes are grossly overpaid. Doctors make a lot of money because it takes years of school/experience to do what they do. And that would be saving lives & making lives better.
You try and take money away from doctors watch people stop wanting to be doctors. I can only imagine a country with universal healthcare with a shortage of doctors.
You don't have to look too far. Europe has a doctor shortage. Two stories from Sweden:
In countries with national health care, doctors are employees. They don't have to pay for their office, equipment and staff, so that justifies their lower salary. Some prefer it but some doctors prefer being their own boss and making their own medical decisions instead of what is mandated by the government.
You are misinformed...Canadian physicians are not government employees. They retain a great deal of control over when, how and where they work. Instead of being paid salaries, most of them bill provincial governments on a fee-for-service basis.
And you can bet the farm that anything not controlled by the AMA was deemed quackery, regardless of its efficacy.
*acupuncture
*osteopathy
*chiropractic
The AMA did not commission the Flexner Report.
Quote:
And you can believe that bought and paid for hatchet job !
Flexner was a respected educator, not a physician. He actually visited all those medical schools and evaluated everything from admission qualifications for students to access to teaching labs and hospitals. His standard was the medical school at Johns Hopkins. The schools that he said were bad were really bad.
Quote:
What makes you think that a license to commit manslaughter without criminal liability insures competence?
If that was true, why would there be civil suits for malpractice?
PUH-lease.
I've seen my share of incompetent 'licensed' demigods of medicine who put casts on wrong, made inaccurate diagnoses, and were obligated to follow procedures that they knew were approved but worthless, lest they risk censure by 'the system.'
Personally, I'd prefer total deregulation of the medical field, and the end to "controlled substances."
Instead of malpractice insurance, satisfaction guaranteed, or your money back!
- - -and nothing more.
OH, and zero public subsidy, too.
LET'S RESTORE HEALTH CARE AS A RIGHT - NOT A GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED PRIVILEGE!
If you want anyone to be able to hang up a shingle and start doing brain surgery, be my guest. I do not.
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