Gay marriage will soon be legal (thought, Christ, homosexual, religion)

[trnmeon]

Originally Posted by MamaBee

I just wanted to make sure that I had your argument correct...that those who disagree are basically ignorant, old, hateful, and full of fear. Those who are religious are out of step with modern times.

So tell me, where does one get their morals and values if not from religion?

If you're honestly suggesting that religion (the bible, assuming you're Christian) is some pilar example of morality, then you obviously haven't read it cover to cover.

Because your god approved or torture, merciless killings, and genocide. And considering that Christians are monotheistic, it was this same god who is also discussed in the New Testament, as Christians argue they're Christian, not Jewish, so everything in the Old Testament should be disregarded.

It doesn't make any sense.

[trnmeon]

Originally Posted by MamaBee

And where there is a large population of liberals there are organized groups donating time, money, and sway over their own causes such as sustainability and gay rights.

Conservatives only disapprove of same-sex marriage because of ignorance and prejudice. These are the same people who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old - rather than research the issues, they make up their mind because of what the bible tells them.

It's this blatant incapacity for reason that will cause this country serious problems if not stopped. So, while I'd agree that liberal groups often do sustain gay rights, generally speaking, the decisions are made on the basis of reason, not a stalwart attempt to deny reality.

[MamaBee]

Originally Posted by trnmeon

If you're honestly suggesting that religion (the bible, assuming you're Christian) is some pilar example of morality, then you obviously haven't read it cover to cover.

Because your god approved or torture, merciless killings, and genocide. And considering that Christians are monotheistic, it was this same god who is also discussed in the New Testament, as Christians argue they're Christian, not Jewish, so everything in the Old Testament should be disregarded.

It doesn't make any sense.

I assume you don't believe in God since you refer to him as my God.

I questioned that if one doesn't get their morals from religion then where would one receive them? Apparently, you don't have an answer.

I suggest that you get down off your soapbox and stop belittling those who believe differently than yourself.

[MamaBee]

Originally Posted by trnmeon

Conservatives only disapprove of same-sex marriage because of ignorance and prejudice. These are the same people who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old - rather than research the issues, they make up their mind because of what the bible tells them.

It's this blatant incapacity for reason that will cause this country serious problems if not stopped. So, while I'd agree that liberal groups often do sustain gay rights, generally speaking, the decisions are made on the basis of reason, not a stalwart attempt to deny reality.

You appear to be just as ignorant and prejudiced as the people you accuse of the same behavior.

[trnmeon]

Originally Posted by MamaBee

I assume you don't believe in God since you refer to him as my God.

I questioned that if one doesn't get their morals from religion then where would one receive them? Apparently, you don't have an answer.

I suggest that you get down off your soapbox and stop belittling those who believe differently than yourself.

You apparently didn't read the first post at the top of this page, because I most certainly provided you with an answer.

No, I don't believe in god - that is my right under the Constitution of this country - freedom to practice any religion one sees fit, as well as the right not to practice religion if one sees fit.

Which is why I have a problem with the logic that because a book that has proved completely inaccurate in basically every historical context, without the slightest thread of empirical evidence, can be used to deny me equal rights.

[Lakewooder]

Originally Posted by wehotex

that is pretty much true. if you look at the results of states where they've had anti-gay referendums/propositions, you will find that organized religion has always been there donating its time, money and sway over its members' opinions.

And still not paying taxes...

[MamaBee]

Your answer was not where an alternative for morals can be sought, only another attack on Christians and the bible.

No one has denied you the right nor attacked you for not believing in God...

I haven't seen any laws that cite the Bible...could you point me in the right direction?

You seem to have a larger problem than feeling your perceived rights are in violation...

[trnmeon]

Originally Posted by MamaBee

You appear to be just as ignorant and prejudiced as the people you accuse of the same behavior.

Has it ever occurred to you that for a person coming out as gay, bisexual, or lesbian, that that in an of itself is difficult enough without the extra added pressure of religious fundamentalists armed with biblical passages telling you you're doomed to hell?

If you think I'm ignorant, you apparently haven't sat in church and listened to the anti-gay diatribes that are spewed from the mouths of the so-called "moral" self-righteous types.

[trnmeon]

Originally Posted by MamaBee

Your answer was not where an alternative for morals can be sought, only another attack on Christians and the bible.

What are morals? Are they something intrinsic or are they a concept made by man? I think the former rather than the latter describes "morality". We see "morality" played out time and time again in various animal populations, populations in which no religion exists.

If religion were responsible for morality, why are less religious places less crime ridden than more religious places like the US, South America, and most places of Africa?

[paullySC]

Originally Posted by trnmeon

You know, what I've always found interesting was the fact that there seems to be a link between rejection of religion, or secularism, amongst a large portion of a given population and progressive thinking and legislature. In the case of same-sex marriage laws or civil unions, there is a definitive link between less religious countries and acceptance of homosexuality and same-sex laws. This is true in Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Germany, France, UK, Sweden, and Norway, among others.

The US on the other hand, is a bit of an anomaly, being one of the most developed and wealthy countries in the world, still is bound by anachronous and conservative Christian ideology - so ingrained into the cultural fabric of the country that it has a very real affect on same-sex legislature.

Self-righteous types who oppose same-sex marriage because their religion says it's wrong, and will go to extreme lengths to maintain the "sanctity" of marriage. This has less to do, I think, with preserving historically definitions of marriage, but rather is a result of hate, fear, and ignorance - all a direct result of biblical passage.

California, Maine, and Massachussetts all offer some kind of same-sex partnership laws. And with older, conservative generations being replaced by younger, more educated, and less religious young people, it's only a matter of time before every state recognizes same-sex unions.

Because quite frankly, as a gay man, I don't think it's the governments right to tell me who I can and can't marry. Whether I chose to be gay, or am biologically just attracted to other men, my personal life choices are just that, mine. And as a tax payer and contributer to society, I resent that a book written 2,000 years ago by men which led to a religion that I don't even subscribe to, is used as justification to deny me equal rights.

Yes, there will always be religious people who oppose same-sex marriage, but the time has come that religious fundamentalism (which so far has proved completely off base in every assertion and/or explanation it has given of...well, everything) step out of social issues and stay where it belongs, because social issues demand fair and balanced reason, and reason is something that religion is notoriously lacking.

Gay marriage should become legal the day polygamy becomes legal.