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Old 09-16-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Central Illinois -
19,628 posts, read 13,272,992 times
Reputation: 12802

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If you take the long view, Trump is good for America. The sewers have been flooded and all the creepy crawlies have been exposed to the light. All pretenses are gone, and once the ugliness of this group becomes more widely known (thank you Robert Mueller, among others) we can sweep this trash up and this will be a "teachable moment", as well as a warning of how fragile our democracy is.

Sometimes you need this to show people the evil that lurks within so that they are aware of the dangers to our country. Many Americans simply have no clue.

 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:43 AM
 
10,157 posts, read 2,524,845 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
The article you linked showed great GDP gains, great corp profits.

That leads to even more growth.

Something POTUS 44 never understood.

America thrives when private enterprise thrives. They built that.
Exactly who do you mean when you write "America thrives?" We're a lot of people here in America and every time I read about who is "thriving" it seems to be far from everyone. No matter? As long as the economy is humming along, we're all good? Wasn't that the mantra just before the Depression and the Great Recession?

There are a myriad of important economic and social measures/factors that determine just how well America is "thriving" on all variety of levels. Corporate bottom lines is just one of them, and I'm no expert, but the corporate bottom line is not always improved by what improves things for Americans in general. Wall Street opinion not withstanding...
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Northwest Peninsula
2,615 posts, read 1,349,825 times
Reputation: 1368
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBev View Post
Obama was worse in a silent way.

Obama is/was silent?
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:49 AM
 
10,157 posts, read 2,524,845 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
America is getting better and better every day!

I am much better off today than I was 10 years ago.
Okay, good for you! Me too, but WHY?

It would be interesting (to me anyway) to write a list of questions for Americans to answer, perhaps to help "connect the dots" between how things are improved (or not) and the reasons why?

Do you have a job now that you didn't before? Thanks to a Trump policy? Which one(s)?

Do you make more money than you did before? Thanks to a Trump policy? Which one(s)?

Do your kids or kids you know have better access to quality education? Better health care?

Etc., etc...

I can think of countless questions that might better measure or quantify what we all think and feel is better or worse about today compared to yesterday, and then if we also intelligently answered the WHY question, I am quite sure most roads would not lead to Obama or Trump.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 10:57 AM
 
10,157 posts, read 2,524,845 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
Some of these people are a hilarious joke..... when they say stupid stuff, like the one claiming Obama was trying to be a totalitarian ..... that's got to be among one of the dumbest jokes yet, and It's no surprise its uttered by a Trump supporter.

Obama never acted like he was trying to be a dictator, he invested himself in things that benefit AMERICAN PEOPLE, This Nations, Its Economy and the health and care of society and promoted he Diplomacy to be a standard among nations.

he did not attack nations, disband by not filling ambassador jobs, he did not attack the Justice Department, or the EPA or any department of the United States Government, and he certainly did not get involved in any daily mission to attack something, Trump has not missed a day, denigrating American, American's government and American people and American institutions..... and he certainly did not take kids from Asylum seeking people from any place around the globe, regardless of where they came from.
Yeah, but for people who see all these "attacks" as some sort of purification process, part of making "America great again," they're slapping Trump on the back with wild enthusiasm while others see things more like you do. Again, WHY do we see things so differently?

There are more than a few ways to answer this question, even without insulting anyone! But without insult is not as fun or interesting to a lot of people who comment in this forum, obviously. The reason boils down to different ideology that is very difficult if not impossible to reconcile. You might as well be asking a fundamentalist Catholic to consider Hindu beliefs. Ain't going to happen...
 
Old 09-16-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
15,568 posts, read 9,642,463 times
Reputation: 34355
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I know we had our problems. Lots to complain about, be angry about, little-to-no trust in government, "throw the bums out!" Sure, but as bad as it was, don't you miss the America before Trump?

Instead of throwing out the bums, seems Trump surrounded himself with new ones. Instead of "draining the swamp," we simply got another swamp to contend with, wonder about. A POTUS who instead of explaining why we needed a new health care plan, to cover people with previous conditions, we have a POTUS who explains what women will let you do to them under the right conditions.

Instead of a Noble Peace prize and a world impressed that America would actually elect a black POTUS, we get a wall that Mexico will pay for, and "thousands of Muslims" Trump said were cheering on 9/11. We get the best health care plan ever, never seen. An international trade war and now China cozying up with Russia. Instead of Michelle, we get hanky panky with porn stars and Playboy bunnies and even better, hush money paid in the $100 thousands to keep them quiet.

Not that any of this should have us wonder what else needs to be hushed...

Right, but what about the economy and our 401Ks?

I knew I shouldn't have started this thread, but I do surely miss the good old days before Trump started making America great again...


There is no denying that, in the past 20ish months, Donald Trump has totally destroyed the Presidency of this great country. He has disrespected it, spat on it, and brought it to the lowest point ever. No President, not either Bush, or Clinton, or Obama treated this very high position as if it were a real estate office. Even Nixon had a certain degree of dignity about him, while Trump is like a carnival barker/showman, taking up residence in the WH.


I don't know if we will ever recover. America has turned our backs on many of our oldest, most important allies. We have pitted American against American. We have had almost 2 years of chaos and revelation after revelation, and investigations that have uncovered scores of people who have already pleaded guilty to serious crimes.

Instead of Trump making America Great Again, he has made us no better than some 3rd world Banana dictatorship. I hope to God we can recover.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 11:15 AM
 
10,157 posts, read 2,524,845 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Trump was the guy who threw the bums out, stopped the establishment in its tracks, crushed Crooked Hillary's dream, beat the Clinton machine and the media. Trump ain't a saint, and he hasn't gotten everything right -- but he is certainly better than the community organizer who the media fawned over for 8 years.
Much like I viewed Obama's efforts to bring about the ACA...

Wasn't perfect, not exactly what Obama had in mind before Congress got involved, but a start. Something we could work toward changing and improving for the better, getting more and more millions of Americans covered that before couldn't even imagine such a thing, but clearly not everyone saw it that way despite the support Obama got to push the ACA through despite all odds. Finally, after how many prior administrations tried doing something of the same thing?

Then I thought, okay, at least Trump says he's got something better than ever to roll out to the American people. We got a big fat nada, and yet Trump supporters seem to support Trump and that big fat nada as if Trump's plan never to emerge was made in Heaven! Anything but the ACA is all they know, which I must say is not knowing much!

Near 20 percent of our GDP, a serious matter for EVERY American, life and death stuff, and we get a big fat nada?

Right! Back to all those illegal immigrants and that wall (also a big nada) that we can all focus upon instead, "rapists and murderers!" That should distract us from what REALLY matters for awhile longer, and why not a few tweets about Schwarzenegger for good measure, to up the entertainment value and distract us even more? Not a distraction far as Trump supporters are concerned? All part of the grand scheme to "make America great again?"

All sounds good of course, if you can somehow believe it...
 
Old 09-16-2018, 11:26 AM
 
10,157 posts, read 2,524,845 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
I don't see much change in my day to day life between now and 10 years ago. however, I avoid all people and situations where there could be even the remotest possibility of conflict now. I never did that prior to the last 5 or so years. this avoidance may be due to my age, but it mostly stems from a decline in social civility and an increase in irrational behavior.
I'm having trouble keeping up with this thread. Lots of comments since I signed off yesterday. Too many to get to today before now I must sign off again and get on to other things...

I am sorry you are feeling a greater chance of conflict now. I'm feeling the opposite, but I suspect this has more to do with where we live and what we do. Again the all-important answer to the question WHY?

"Perception is everything" as some like to say. I'm retired now and very happily living in a pretty safe, beautiful place, probably with less "fear of conflict" than I've known in years past.

Not sure it helps any. I know lots of people tend to focus on the "conflicts" instead of all else Americans continue to enjoy as part of living in America, especially as we get on in years, but I always try to remember that compared to some of these "conflicts," protests and such today, remember the Vietnam protests, what happened at Kent State? Remember when Reagan was shot? MLK, JFK, Bobby Kennedy...?

I'll take the protest march and occasional thrown bottle, usually mostly peaceful when you consider all of the marches, protests and people joining them, well before I consider those horrible times when it seemed political assassinations was the new normal! I mean talk about "conflict!"

Here's to more peace in general, however we may best be able to promote it on this good Sunday...

Last edited by LearnMe; 09-16-2018 at 11:45 AM..
 
Old 09-16-2018, 11:38 AM
 
9,268 posts, read 5,781,633 times
Reputation: 7540
" Don't you miss the America before Trump? "

Heck no. Business is booming and I'm making more money. I'm very pleased.
 
Old 09-16-2018, 11:38 AM
 
10,157 posts, read 2,524,845 times
Reputation: 1230
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
If you are not better off financially under Trump than Obama you are doing something wrong. My stock is up almost $350k and my home value has increased. There is growth again in building.

Of course, those with their hands out mooching off of taxpayers arenít happy the redistributor in chief is out of office.
Oh, no, you've jumped to a bad assumption there!

I've enjoyed improved values as much if not more than you have, but I've also spent much time considering and understanding how and why these "ups and downs" come to be. Obama nor Trump are really the great influence on our $20-trillion dollar per year economy that you and Trump supporters want to insist upon. It's just Econ 101, really having nothing to do with poor people if that's who you are rather insultingly referring to...

Nearly 50% of Americans are reported unable to financially manage a $500 emergency bill, most I'm quite sure don't have their hands out mooching as you seem inclined to insult all too many millions of Americans.

Hey, but we're getting ours. Right? What else matters, and who cares who gets the credit as long as it's Trump if you voted for him. I get it...

I really do need to sign off now. Hope all continues to go well for you...
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