U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:06 PM
Status: "Busy being triggered by pumpkins" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
17,362 posts, read 8,542,942 times
Reputation: 18098

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Capitalism isnít a constant, there are plenty of anarchist communist societies.

The problem arises when the global supply chain is profit based, capitalist authoritarians who have no natural right to have a monopoly on the means of production do, and that affects everyone else. Furthermore they are destroying the earth to maximize supply of goods not in demand (they try to artificially create the demand).

Capitalism destroys everything, the entire global system must be abolished.
Winterfall, which system would you prefer over capitalism?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,243 posts, read 1,736,136 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Winterfall, which system would you prefer over capitalism?
Anarcho-syndicalism. It is built for an industrialized world where mass production is organized through democratic voluntary syndicates (decentralized federations), made up of unions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Kansas/China
4,533 posts, read 2,301,265 times
Reputation: 3169
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
I hope the insurance company refuses to cover the damages.
Why, the business was already destroyed, why risk the police officers lives. Unnecessary risk and the liability would be even greater if someone got killed or shot in their business. The owner/manager made the right call.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,243 posts, read 1,736,136 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4dognight View Post
And I repeat. Money is a means of exchange for product. The value of money is determined by what quality-quantity etc of product you are willing to sell in exchange for it. Bartering can be a good thing for basic necessities, but there are those who want nicer things than just basic needs.

They are willing to do what they need to achieve the means to do so and that means is monetary.

Anyway, these thieves were disrespectful to the people who live in the neighborhood where this store is located. People need stores like Family Dollar, especially lower income people, and they need for business owners to not feel afraid to establish their business there.


OR
1. Iím against theft or stealing, Iím trying to explain why it happened

2. Private Ownership is intrinsic to legal claims which make it unnatural in practice and lead to problems of authoritarian control and rule. Like I said before, state backed money does not give a person control over capital, only physical control does. Conversely, this leads to an accumulation of capital under a few people restricting the freedoms of others (being as capital can be used to gain more capital without needing the individual to practice active control).

I much perfer the concept of personal ownership

3. Iíve already responded to that in my last post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Kansas/China
4,533 posts, read 2,301,265 times
Reputation: 3169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Capitalism isnít a constant, there are plenty of anarchist communist societies.

The problem arises when the global supply chain is profit based, capitalist authoritarians who have no natural right to have a monopoly on the means of production do, and that affects everyone else. Furthermore they are destroying the earth to maximize supply of goods not in demand (they try to artificially create the demand).

Capitalism destroys everything, the entire global system must be abolished.
Again, there are no anarchist communist societies. They all survive off the economic systems already existing around them. They all use state currencies. I know you want to believe that Christiania, Catalonia, or the Zapatistas are anarchist societies, but none of them are. Catalonia was the closest, but it didn't survive long. The Zapatistas have zero industrial contribution. The only anarchy communist "society" to have any industrial output was Catalonia, and I'm not sure if thats even true considering they only "existed" about 18 months, they confiscated the existing factories, but I don't see a lot of evidence they produced much if anything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,243 posts, read 1,736,136 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Again, there are no anarchist communist societies. They all survive off the economic systems already existing around them. They all use state currencies. I know you want to believe that Christiania, Catalonia, or the Zapatistas are anarchist societies, but none of them are. Catalonia was the closest, but it didn't survive long. The Zapatistas have zero industrial contribution. The only anarchy communist "society" to have any industrial output was Catalonia, and I'm not sure if thats even true considering they only "existed" about 18 months, they confiscated the existing factories, but I don't see a lot of evidence they produced much if anything.
I already addressed that an anarchist society today exists in a capitalist context. As for Catalonia, people were free to operate by themselves or with others, and industrial output INCREASED.

The reason this common sense system based on freedom is destroyed because all states are terrified of individual freedom (that is included private state powers, or better known as corporations).

And the Zapatistas have successful created a community for themselves without government support and inspite if government destruction of their crop fields.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:50 PM
 
Location: SGV
21,767 posts, read 8,141,047 times
Reputation: 8737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Why, the business was already destroyed, why risk the police officers lives. Unnecessary risk and the liability would be even greater if someone got killed or shot in their business. The owner/manager made the right call.
There is no liability on the store if someone got shot or killed inside the business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 05:52 PM
 
5,749 posts, read 1,288,224 times
Reputation: 2983

Disgusting rationalization for theft. You are telling me that 2 days after the hurricane hit all these people ran out of food and supplies?



I am fine with some sort of anti looting stand your ground law where looters can be shot if they flee a store with merchandise during an emergency situation like this. There could be elderly and disabled people in the city, good people who will be without supplies which might be life and death because of the actions of these thieves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 06:22 PM
Status: "Busy being triggered by pumpkins" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
17,362 posts, read 8,542,942 times
Reputation: 18098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I already addressed that an anarchist society today exists in a capitalist context. As for Catalonia, people were free to operate by themselves or with others, and industrial output INCREASED.

The reason this common sense system based on freedom is destroyed because all states are terrified of individual freedom (that is included private state powers, or better known as corporations).

And the Zapatistas have successful created a community for themselves without government support and inspite if government destruction of their crop fields.
You can call it a common sense system all you want, but you're alone in feeling that way here.

I like personal responsibility and capitalism calls for it. We're not all the same, we don't all contribute equally, and to expect a world where there are no class differences means you're going to find a lot of people who aren't motivated to go above and beyond. To create. To build things.

For every ten people who looted, there were 100 from that building who didn't. So capitalism has zip to do with the behavior of the impoverished and their choice to loot. It has to do with a lack of morals and a sense of entitlement. Why? Because they weren't raised right or because spending a lifetime of having things handed to them leads to that attitude, or frustration that they don't have the skills to buy the things they think they want or think they deserve, or all of the aforementioned.

Seeing people who have more usually motivates people to work hard or become more educated / skilled so they can have the same things and live the same kind of lifestyle. And it's the sweat off the backs of those people that keep losers like the looters fed and housed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,243 posts, read 1,736,136 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
You can call it a common sense system all you want, but you're alone in feeling that way here.

I like personal responsibility and capitalism calls for it. We're not all the same, we don't all contribute equally, and to expect a world where there are no class differences means you're going to find a lot of people who aren't motivated to go above and beyond. To create. To build things.

For every ten people who looted, there were 100 from that building who didn't. So capitalism has zip to do with the behavior of the impoverished and their choice to loot. It has to do with a lack of morals and a sense of entitlement. Why? Because they weren't raised right or because spending a lifetime of having things handed to them leads to that attitude, or frustration that they don't have the skills to buy the things they think they want or think they deserve, or all of the aforementioned.

Seeing people who have more usually motivates people to work hard or become more educated / skilled so they can have the same things and live the same kind of lifestyle. And it's the sweat off the backs of those people that keep losers like the looters fed and housed.
First off, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs does not mean equal outcome.


Secondly I donít support destruction of property or theft, Iím just saying this would never happen in a non capitalist society. These people donít exist separate from you or anyone else.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top