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Old 09-18-2018, 08:34 AM
 
1,784 posts, read 682,366 times
Reputation: 1218

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Trump is correct. The actual federal law/regulation regarding the appointment of special counsel requires probable cause that a crime was committed which is the threshold or standard for all law enforcement investigations - anything less does not meet the de minimis test for government action.

Here is the actual text:

ß 600.1 Grounds for appointing a Special Counsel.
The Attorney General, or in cases in which the Attorney General is recused, the Acting Attorney General, will appoint a Special Counsel when he or she determines that criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted and -

(a) That investigation or prosecution of that person or matter by a United States Attorney's Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department or other extraordinary circumstances; and

(b) That under the circumstances, it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter.
I don't see the words "probable cause" in there. But it clearly says that if the Acting Attorney General thinks an investigation is warranted, then he can appoint a Special Counsel. He doesn't have to show probable cause to anyone. (Rosenstein said in a statement, "My decision is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted. I have made no such determination. What I have determined is that based upon the unique circumstances the public interest requires me to place this investigation under the authority of a person who exercises a degree of independence from the normal chain of command." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ro...el_appointment)

The idea of probable cause relates to issuance of search warrants. Mueller would need to show probable cause to obtain a search warrant. But Rosenstein can appoint all the Special Prosecutors he wants, regardless of probable cause.

 
Old 09-18-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: NC
6,390 posts, read 4,470,459 times
Reputation: 7148
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
You seem to not be in favor of transparency.

What are you afraid of?

Just face it, the declassification is going to show even more questionable motive by the investigators, and that the DOJ used leaked media reports in their FISA renewals.
I will give Trump one "win". He has successfully changed the narrative of the investigation. The investigation was not about "Trump and Russian Collusion". It was about Russian Interference in the US Election. Trump changed that (and successfully, I might ad) so that he could play the victim card, and undermine the true investigation before it found its own way to the conclusion that he was involved.

As he would say, it makes him smart. He is thus-far successful in undermining justice, and more importantly, getting himself out of a bind. His supporters are all too eager to claim success, not because he has been proven innocent, but because he has played a legal chess-match to avoid getting caught. #Sad.

And the investigation, under its original charter of investigating Russian Interference has been quite successful. Let's just hope that if Trump is directly involved, as I SUSPECT he is, that it gets uncovered before he protects himself from the reach of justice by way of technicality.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
54,145 posts, read 38,225,022 times
Reputation: 26638
Trump's newest defense: Since there was no proven Russian collusion Mueller should not have been appointed


IOW, there was no proof Benedict Arnold turned-colors so he shouldn't have been investigated.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Ohio
4,082 posts, read 1,466,604 times
Reputation: 3211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
I will give Trump one "win". He has successfully changed the narrative of the investigation. The investigation was not about "Trump and Russian Collusion". It was about Russian Interference in the US Election. Trump changed that (and successfully, I might ad) so that he could play the victim card, and undermine the true investigation before it found its own way to the conclusion that he was involved.

As he would say, it makes him smart. He is thus-far successful in undermining justice, and more importantly, getting himself out of a bind. His supporters are all too eager to claim success, not because he has been proven innocent, but because he has played a legal chess-match to avoid getting caught. #Sad.

And the investigation, under its original charter of investigating Russian Interference has been quite successful. Let's just hope that if Trump is directly involved, as I SUSPECT he is, that it gets uncovered before he protects himself from the reach of justice by way of technicality.
That's right to a point. But the investigation led to other areas having nothing to do with Russia. Mueller started uncovering corruption and illegal financial transactions, and it is his duty to drill down those paths until he prosecutes any potential violators. This is Trump's real fear, there is a reason why he never publicly revealed his tax returns. He's hiding something big, and "Russian collusion" may be the least of his worries. Of course as citizens we care about that a lot as we should. All Trump cares about is covering his rear.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 09:00 AM
 
Location: NC
6,390 posts, read 4,470,459 times
Reputation: 7148
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
That's right to a point. But the investigation led to other areas having nothing to do with Russia. Mueller started uncovering corruption and illegal financial transactions, and it is his duty to drill down those paths until he prosecutes any potential violators. This is Trump's real fear, there is a reason why he never publicly revealed his tax returns. He's hiding something big, and "Russian collusion" may be the least of his worries. Of course as citizens we care about that a lot as we should. All Trump cares about is covering his rear.
I think we are in agreement.

My point was that his false narrative that this is about Trump/Russia Collusion is just a big smoke screen, and a way of playing the victim card, in hopes that the investigation will be stopped before it can drill down.

If you look at Bill Clinton as a historical point, he was being investigated for Whitewater, which led to him being implicated for infidelity. Infidelity is not illegal, but lying under oath is, and he got impeached for that reason.

As you rightly point out, Trump has plenty to fear, and his being investigated for ANYTHING (even if it's something he's innocent for) has to scare the crap out of him. The law clearly states that once an investigation like this starts, they are empowered to look down any rabbit holes it may uncover.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
27,611 posts, read 24,793,924 times
Reputation: 11185
This investigation is still ongoing? What happened to the September 1st deadline?
 
Old 09-18-2018, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Boston
5,097 posts, read 1,455,542 times
Reputation: 3734
Wow, this whole Mueller charade has really blown up in the Trump haters faces.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 09:08 AM
 
Location: United States
10,619 posts, read 4,579,851 times
Reputation: 4965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
I think we are in agreement.

My point was that his false narrative that this is about Trump/Russia Collusion is just a big smoke screen, and a way of playing the victim card, in hopes that the investigation will be stopped before it can drill down.

If you look at Bill Clinton as a historical point, he was being investigated for Whitewater, which led to him being implicated for infidelity. Infidelity is not illegal, but lying under oath is, and he got impeached for that reason.

As you rightly point out, Trump has plenty to fear, and his being investigated for ANYTHING (even if it's something he's innocent for) has to scare the crap out of him. The law clearly states that once an investigation like this starts, they are empowered to look down any rabbit holes it may uncover.
So you agree that the Russian collusion was just a false pretext to launch an investigation in search of any crimes.

OK, now we're finally getting somewhere.

Now we can finally have an adult conversation, and discuss the serious problems of manufacturing a false Russian collusion claims to launch an fraudulent investigation in search of a crime to take down a duly elected President.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 09:10 AM
 
11,376 posts, read 3,693,720 times
Reputation: 5425
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
So you agree that the Russian collusion was just a false pretext to launch an investigation in search of any crimes.

OK, now we're finally getting somewhere.

Now we can finally have an adult conversation, and discuss the serious problems of manufacturing a false Russian collusion claims to launch an fraudulent investigation in search of a crime to take down a duly elected President.
That's ALL this is about. It's going to be amazing when all of this is finally revealed and nobody goes to jail over it.
 
Old 09-18-2018, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
8,605 posts, read 2,904,307 times
Reputation: 5135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
That's ALL this is about. It's going to be amazing when all of this is finally revealed and nobody goes to jail over it.
People are already going to jail.

Special Counsel investigation Criminal charges - Wikipedia

Read: Mueller indictment against 12 Russian spies for DNC hack - Vox
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