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View Poll Results: Who do you consider "your people"
All Americans 74 33.33%
Americans who share your religion 2 0.90%
Americans who share your ethnicity/race 13 5.86%
Americans who share your ethnicity AND religion 6 2.70%
People of your religion anywhere in the world 1 0.45%
People of your ethnicity/race anywhere in the world 14 6.31%
People of your state regardless of background 4 1.80%
People of your region (South, New England, etc) regardless of background 9 4.05%
People of your immediate community regardless of background 12 5.41%
Other 87 39.19%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-19-2018, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
Not to get off topic, but the thread title "who do you consider your people" is an interesting question that I'd like to hear Donald Trump answer. Off the cuff, no teleprompter.
Since you went there. We know who Obama's people are and aren't. He told us daily, the "people of color", liberals, blacks over whites, muslims etc.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I think some people assume that an absence of pride is the same thing as shame. It isn't.

I've always kind of felt the same way you do: pride is something reserved for one's personal accomplishments, not one's nationality, race, intelligence (as opposed to acquired knowledge, which is an accomplishment) or any other thing that is essentially an accident of birth. So, no, I am not particularly proud to be an American, any more than I am ashamed of it. I may be thankful, as living here means I am unlikely to ever be imprisoned for my political views or to die in a famine, but thankfulness is a whole other thing, and has little to do with pride.
So you don't feel pride (or shame) in your parents or relatives or children, just indifference? Get out of here with that.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:45 PM
Status: "Can kindness win?" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Here and now.
10,445 posts, read 2,831,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
So you don't feel pride (or shame) in your parents or relatives or children, just indifference? Get out of here with that.
I didn't say I felt indifference, and I don't know why you think that I did. I have felt admiration, gratitude, all kinds of things. But as I said before, to me, pride is something one can only rightly feel for one's own accomplishments, or perhaps also for those of their children, insofar as good parenting can equip children to do great things.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:53 PM
 
Location: The analog world
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I didn't say I felt indifference, and I don't know why you think that I did. I have felt admiration, gratitude, all kinds of things. But as I said before, to me, pride is something one can only rightly feel for one's own accomplishments, or perhaps also for those of their children, insofar as good parenting can equip children to do great things.
Indeed.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I didn't say I felt indifference, and I don't know why you think that I did. I have felt admiration, gratitude, all kinds of things. But as I said before, to me, pride is something one can only rightly feel for one's own accomplishments, or perhaps also for those of their children, insofar as good parenting can equip children to do great things.
You can be proud of anyone or anything. You can certainly be proud (happiness and satisfaction) of your own admirable qualities or shameful even if you did nothing to acquire them.

People who tell you shouldn't be proud want you to be humble and shameful.

In your own example, parents can be proud of their good children, their children can be proud of their good parents and proud of themselves insofar they behaved as good kids.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:12 PM
 
Location: The analog world
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I come down on Cat's side on this one. Gratitude is what I feel when considering the accomplishments of my predecessors not pride, which is not my privilege.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I come down on Cat's side on this one. Gratitude is what I feel when considering the accomplishments of my predecessors not pride, which is not my privilege.
Someone else's accomplishments don't have to benefit you for you to be proud of them.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: The analog world
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Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Someone else's accomplishments don't have to benefit you for you to be proud of them.
Still sticking with gratitude, mtl. Sorry, I just don't agree with you.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:52 PM
 
6,836 posts, read 4,426,984 times
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"Pride" in this context means a feeling of fealty and adherence to a particular set of people; one's blood-relations are a subset of that set, but the set itself is far larger; lacking a better term, we can call it a "tribe". In other words, "pride" is a tribal feeling, where members of the tribe have a mutual adherence, neighborliness, trust. Those external to the tribe could perhaps still be decent people, honorable people, wise and accomplished people... but they're not members of the tribe, and therefore don't enjoy the immediate and visceral rapport of tribe-membership.

Such tribal-pride is, I think, humanly inevitable. The question becomes, "what in the modern world legitimately constitutes a tribe"? Is it a nation? A state? A race? Thus, perhaps, the premise of this thread.

I am reminded of Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle", and his concepts of "karass" and its opposite, "granfalloon".
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
"Pride" in this context means a feeling of fealty and adherence to a particular set of people; one's blood-relations are a subset of that set, but the set itself is far larger; lacking a better term, we can call it a "tribe". In other words, "pride" is a tribal feeling, where members of the tribe have a mutual adherence, neighborliness, trust. Those external to the tribe could perhaps still be decent people, honorable people, wise and accomplished people... but they're not members of the tribe, and therefore don't enjoy the immediate and visceral rapport of tribe-membership.

Such tribal-pride is, I think, humanly inevitable. The question becomes, "what in the modern world legitimately constitutes a tribe"? Is it a nation? A state? A race? Thus, perhaps, the premise of this thread.

I am reminded of Kurt Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle", and his concepts of "karass" and its opposite, "granfalloon".
I agree. But Catgirl and other liberals often say that whites at a national or racial level should not have this "tribal-pride" you mention. I'm of the belief they need more than they current have of it not less.
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