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Old 09-19-2018, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Economist and the ones making money through our central banking system, they think differently, when the population of workers they have, do not make them enough money.
Well they should not get to solely decide what America's immigration policy is just because it financially benefits them personally.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:58 PM
Status: "Watching the World Wake Up from History" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Right here; Right now
7,662 posts, read 4,088,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Well they should not get to solely decide what America's immigration policy is just because it financially benefits them personally.
Welcome to America.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:00 PM
 
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So are people saying that being murdered by Border Patrol agents is just one of the risks of seeking asylum?
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:06 PM
Status: "Watching the World Wake Up from History" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Right here; Right now
7,662 posts, read 4,088,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
So are people saying that being murdered by Border Patrol agents is just one of the risks of seeking asylum?
I believe what they are saying is millions of illegal immigrants is worse than one Boarder Patrol Agent gone serial killer.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:24 PM
 
12,404 posts, read 3,477,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
I believe what they are saying is millions of illegal immigrants is worse than one Boarder Patrol Agent gone serial killer.
Yes because millions of illegal immigrants constitute many thousands of killers, rapists, human traffickers, drug dealers and various other criminal offenders.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
18,010 posts, read 8,796,664 times
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Here are some studies I've posted previously:

I had to do a search for a post I wrote on September 2, 2015. I'm copying and pasting the text here:


U.S. GAO - Unaccompanied Alien Children: Actions Needed to Ensure Children Receive Required Care in DHS Custody

U.S. GAO - Identity Fraud: Prevalence and Links to Alien Illegal Activities

U.S. GAO - Information on Certain Illegal Aliens Arrested in the United States

U.S. GAO - Illegal Aliens: Estimating Their Impact on the United States


In addition, in April 2005, the GAO released a report on a study of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003. It found the following: Of the 55,322 illegal aliens studied, researchers found that they were arrested a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien.
  • They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien.
  • 49% had previously been convicted of a felony, 20% of a drug offense; 18% a violent offense, and 11%, other felony offenses.
  • 81% of the arrests occurred after 1990
  • 56% of those charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
  • Defendants charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.


The study only sampled about 21% of the incarcerated illegal aliens.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:27 PM
Status: "Watching the World Wake Up from History" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Right here; Right now
7,662 posts, read 4,088,306 times
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Default Be ever so careful what you wish for ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Yes because millions of illegal immigrants constitute many thousands of killers, rapists, human traffickers, drug dealers and various other criminal offenders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Here are some studies I've posted previously:

I had to do a search for a post I wrote on September 2, 2015. I'm copying and pasting the text here:


U.S. GAO - Unaccompanied Alien Children: Actions Needed to Ensure Children Receive Required Care in DHS Custody

U.S. GAO - Identity Fraud: Prevalence and Links to Alien Illegal Activities

U.S. GAO - Information on Certain Illegal Aliens Arrested in the United States

U.S. GAO - Illegal Aliens: Estimating Their Impact on the United States


In addition, in April 2005, the GAO released a report on a study of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003. It found the following: Of the 55,322 illegal aliens studied, researchers found that they were arrested a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien.
  • They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien.
  • 49% had previously been convicted of a felony, 20% of a drug offense; 18% a violent offense, and 11%, other felony offenses.
  • 81% of the arrests occurred after 1990
  • 56% of those charged with a reentry offense had previously been convicted on at least 5 prior occasions.
  • Defendants charged with unlawful reentry had the most extensive criminal histories. 90% had been previously arrested. Of those with a prior arrest, 50% had been arrested for violent or drug-related felonies.


The study only sampled about 21% of the incarcerated illegal aliens.
I appreciate your research and I am being honest when I say that. Also, I am including the poster above you with what I am about to say, because these two post (as well as the others that cast their argument in this fashion) all go hand in hand. Copy and pasting my words from my previous post, as choosing to say it differently, is a waste of time, so it seems:

... this thread is a perfect example of those willing to take a blind eye, to what people are going through. It began with an OP on the Border Patrol agent gone serial killer, to rather focus attention on the immigrants ... asylum seekers, as if they are the blame for the corruption in our government and the agencies tasked to carry out policies (not law) claiming to represent the interests of the American people.

And this is the America you can be proud of?


People get busy heading down a path, because the end seems like it will be a good result, not casting their eye from side to side and/or observing their surroundings as they proceed. When in the end, the result, was least expected and not what they anticipated at all. What was happening around them, was also happening to them, yet they never noticed as it seemed to not have a direct effect. In the end it is too late to turn back and they become powerless to do anything about it.

I hate to bring this up, because it always gets brought up, but if we forget it, and forget how it was done, then we are to blame for ourselves being blind, because we do have a chance to set it right, before it is too late. Do you know how Hitler killed 11 million people? Jobs were scarce. He told them to get on a train and there would be a job waiting for them at the other end and they believed it.

If I tell you of the ICE lawyer that received a prison sentence for stealing immigrants identities, you'd come back with all the stats of how many times immigrants have stood accused of stealing citizen's identities. You'd do so without even realizing the obvious.

We have officials not doing their jobs in verifying an arrest, before they make one and locking up u.s. citizens. We have corrupted officials, carrying out policies (not law) and we have illegal aliens. Which of those are the greater threat to our liberty? You decide. And while your at it, try to imagine if this were you, as the day may come, that it very well could be. Changes in policy (not law) happen every day.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
18,010 posts, read 8,796,664 times
Reputation: 18446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
I appreciate your research and I am being honest when I say that. Also, I am including the poster above you with what I am about to say, because these two post (as well as the others that cast their argument in this fashion) all go hand in hand. Copy and pasting my words from my previous post, as choosing to say it differently, is a waste of time, so it seems:

... this thread is a perfect example of those willing to take a blind eye, to what people are going through. It began with an OP on the Border Patrol agent gone serial killer, to rather focus attention on the immigrants ... asylum seekers, as if they are the blame for the corruption in our government and the agencies tasked to carry out policies (not law) claiming to represent the interests of the American people.

And this is the America you can be proud of?


People get busy heading down a path, because the end seems like it will be a good result, not casting their eye from side to side and/or observing their surroundings as they proceed. When in the end, the result, was least expected and not what they anticipated at all. What was happening around them, was also happening to them, yet they never noticed as it seemed to not have a direct effect. In the end it is too late to turn back and they become powerless to do anything about it.

I hate to bring this up, because it always gets brought up, but if we forget it, and forget how it was done, then we are to blame for ourselves being blind, because we do have a chance to set it right, before it is too late. Do you know how Hitler killed 11 million people? Jobs were scarce. He told them to get on a train and there would be a job waiting for them at the other end and they believed it.

If I tell you of the ICE lawyer that received a prison sentence for stealing immigrants identities, you'd come back with all the stats of how many times immigrants have stood accused of stealing citizen's identities. You'd do so without even realizing the obvious.

We have officials not doing their jobs in verifying an arrest, before they make one and locking up u.s. citizens. We have corrupted officials, carrying out policies (not law) and we have illegal aliens. Which of those are the greater threat to our liberty? You decide. And while your at it, try to imagine if this were you, as the day may come, that it very well could be. Changes in policy (not law) happen every day.
My post was strictly written with reference to this:

If you're going to post something like this - and I have information that counters it - I'm going to post it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:26 PM
 
5,348 posts, read 1,649,601 times
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BTW the reason the data on foreign born says little about immigrant criminality is because the majority of those offenses are plea deals for other federal crimes, more serious ones, than the ones they are actually convicted of and doing time for. Its FAR easier to get a plea deal for immigration or tax violations than for drug trafficking, conspiracy, smuggling, what have you.

Its an open and shut case they are guilty of the immigration violations. And since there is no parole in the federal system, it at least puts them away, and makes them a deportable alien upon release, whereas if you roll the dice with a jury on the serious offenses, they might hang, acquit, whatever, and then you got nothing, and there's an alien still at large in the country free to continue committing serious federal offenses of that kind for which they were originally arrested!

That's why the data says little about criminality. Ask a federal prosecutor or public defender, you'll get the real poop.

Remind me to tell my story of being in the Santa Clara County Sheriff's office and getting a first row treat to the LITANY of crimes and arrests an alien had been "in the system" for and was trying to document, with the help of a "legal advocate" hired by the Salvation Army of all things (which is why I stopped giving them anything, ever, and tell everyone I meet not to do either), to get this guys immigration case through. Just what they pulled up on their view had arrests from almost every law enforcement agency in the county. It was like 17 different incidents. Including one at which even the legal advocate was amazed. In fact at one point, he said "You STABBED a guy with a sword?" To which the illegal replied, and this is a direct quote, "Ya man, that was some crazy _it" (sorry, I was trying to quote exactly what he said without swearing myself, and that's what he said!)

WTF, right? This is who the Salvation Army was trying to assist become a legal permanent resident or citizen. Unbelievable stuff.

Last edited by phantompilot; 09-19-2018 at 07:38 PM..
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:31 AM
Status: "Watching the World Wake Up from History" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Right here; Right now
7,662 posts, read 4,088,306 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
My post was strictly written with reference to this:
If you're going to post something like this - and I have information that counters it - I'm going to post it.
And I'm going to try and reconcile it ...

GAO Report unaccompanied --- 2015
GAO Report Identity fraud --- 2002
GAO Report Arrests --- 2005
GAO Report Their Impact --- 1980
"... it is difficult to track how the undocumented prisoner population changed in these facilities due to factors such as the Bush and Obama administrations’ immigration enforcement policies." (my bold) ~ not law ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
BTW the reason the data on foreign born says little about immigrant criminality is because the majority of those offenses are plea deals for other federal crimes, more serious ones, than the ones they are actually convicted of and doing time for. Its FAR easier to get a plea deal for immigration or tax violations than for drug trafficking, conspiracy, smuggling, what have you.
Continuing to avoid the elephant in the room, because this is so much more important :

Quote:
Inconsistencies in data quality, collection, and definitions prevent a precise enumeration of total criminal aliens and key subgroups such as criminal aliens convicted of removable offenses and aggravated felonies. It is also not known what portion of these groups consists of legally present noncitizens and unauthrorized aliens. Noncitizen incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails --- a subset of all criminal aliens --- totaled 142,463 in 2013 (the most recent year for which complete data are available), with state prisons and local jails each accounting for more incarcerations than federal prisons. Until recently, the proportion of noncitizens incarcerated in unreported incarceration data since 2013 has hindered such comparisons. (my bold)
Continue the read beyond my snippet.
You people can continue to not talk about the elephant, but I can't. The kids, the children are being incarcerated; sending the adults back, but keeping the kids. For any one else but our u.s. government and its many agencies ... that would be kidnapping, but since it isn't considered kidnapping, what else is it? These are things I think about in what I see.

Any way when you can look at the stats and say for certain that there is no political motivation for them and their numbers are true not skewed and most accurate, then we have something factual to argue with.

As it is one would need to find out the exact policy that was put into place and the values used in the data sets and their collection, before one can say with greater certainty, this is what we are looking at, for real. It's either that, or get on the train.
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