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If he feared for his safety then why would he threaten to assault them, take their weapon, and kill them with it? Obviously he didn't have any fear of them at all - which is likely the reason that THEY were fearful for their lives...who knows what someone crazy enough to threaten to assault two armed persons might be capable of? Plus being a huge dude easily capable of physically overpowering either of them?
Because a person with true fear of their lives is irrational and can do or say things that seem entirely contrary to their continued existence. It's why the military stress, just focus on your training, and you'll be fine, because when people don't they do completely unexpected things that can get them or members of their unit killed.
People express fear in different ways, going literally berserk is well known and has been used historically for shock effect. It almost certainly wasn't berserk through rage, but terror.
Actually I think the area where the dumpster is, is an alley...so its either common property or public property, and doesn't belong to either of the parties.
In the video, they are not on his property...but in an alleyway. If he feared for his safety then why would he threaten to assault them, take their weapon, and kill them with it? Obviously he didn't have any fear of them at all - which is likely the reason that THEY were fearful for their lives...who knows what someone crazy enough to threaten to assault two armed persons might be capable of? Plus being a huge dude easily capable of physically overpowering either of them?
If these guys had been cops, I am confident the DA would not have charged them. At worst they'd get a paid vacation. We have to hold everyone to the same standards of leniency...so whatever the most lenient treatment is, that's what everyone should be getting. Or, whatever the harshest treatment is what everyone should be getting.
Based on everything I have ever seen regarding shootings on video...and I have watched MANY, I'd have to unequivocally say this is "not guilty".
They did trespass on his property multiple times when they dragged the mattress back to his yard.
They were escalating the situation and making it worse. They apparently had no fear of him.
The two guys were arrested on their orange guys property as well.
Look it up. They came to him.
You're standing gun in hand in front of a guy who says that. Either you shoot him immediately, because you believe the threat, or don't because you don't think it's immediately credible.
They did not, I presume because neither took the threat seriously. If they had, then hey, fair play, but they hung around being jerks for minutes afterwards, and throwing equally serious threats that had more immediate credibility.
Here's why I have such a problem with this. This kind of situation is EXACTLY like gun control supporters cried was going to happen with the Castle Doctrine. You've got a guy who, on social media spazzed out about stuff, said he was diagnosed with IED seemingly some form of extreme anger management disorder. It doesn't take a 90 IQ to figure the guys got issues and shouldn't be poked at. But here's dumb and dumber, proof the gene pool needs a little chlorine now and then, poking at the guy while openly handling weapons with absolutely no reason to be doing what they were. We have police and even though I hate the police 99.999% of the time, you follow process and let them do their job.
Good post and I have seen similar posts elsewhere:
In my opinion, this is the sort of **** that is going to cost us our Second Amendment Rights. In the red corner, you've got fat, dumb and inbred. In the blue corner, fat, dumb, stupid and drunk.
It's unreal. It's repugnant. And it's just sad for the children of the rage monster begging to be shot. That said, Fatty MaGoo and CaptainKrispyKreme should have, and had ample opportunity, to extricate themselves from this ****ing dispute.
This was not what the "Stand your ground" Laws were enacted for, not is it a reasonable and prudent operation of a firearm.
All of the single-minded half-wits yelling "he had a bat". Fail to look at the reality that the police were on their way, it was a dispute over garbage, and they could have retreated very easily to the safety of their yard and domicile.
If I were the prosecutor for that county, these ****s would be awaiting trial for Second Degree Murder.
Note: I am a CCW holder, NRA Member, and 2A Advocate.
You're standing gun in hand in front of a guy who says that. Either you shoot him immediately, because you believe the threat, or don't because you don't think it's immediately credible.
They did not, I presume because neither took the threat seriously. If they had, then hey, fair play, but they hung around being jerks for minutes afterwards, and throwing equally serious threats that had more immediate credibility.
Here's why I have such a problem with this. This kind of situation is EXACTLY like gun control supporters cried was going to happen with the Castle Doctrine. You've got a guy who, on social media spazzed out about stuff, said he was diagnosed with IED seemingly some form of extreme anger management disorder. It doesn't take a 90 IQ to figure the guys got issues and shouldn't be poked at. But here's dumb and dumber, proof the gene pool needs a little chlorine now and then, poking at the guy while openly handling weapons with absolutely no reason to be doing what they were. We have police and even though I hate the police 99.999% of the time, you follow process and let them do their job.
Things changed when he grabbed a bat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW
Good post and I have seen similar posts elsewhere:
In my opinion, this is the sort of **** that is going to cost us our Second Amendment Rights. In the red corner, you've got fat, dumb and inbred. In the blue corner, fat, dumb, stupid and drunk.
It's unreal. It's repugnant. And it's just sad for the children of the rage monster begging to be shot. That said, Fatty MaGoo and CaptainKrispyKreme should have, and had ample opportunity, to extricate themselves from this ****ing dispute.
This was not what the "Stand your ground" Laws were enacted for, not is it a reasonable and prudent operation of a firearm.
All of the single-minded half-wits yelling "he had a bat". Fail to look at the reality that the police were on their way, it was a dispute over garbage, and they could have retreated very easily to the safety of their yard and domicile.
If I were the prosecutor for that county, these ****s would be awaiting trial for Second Degree Murder.
Note: I am a CCW holder, NRA Member, and 2A Advocate.
The police on their way isn’t going to stop your head getting caved in nor will retreating turning your back or not.
Seems like all the Monday morning wannabe prosecutors mob want to simply ignore what picking up a bat brought to this situation.
The police on their way isn’t going to stop your head getting caved in nor will retreating turning your back or not.
Seems like all the Monday morning wannabe prosecutors mob want to simply ignore what picking up a bat brought to this situation.
While you overlook what two people walking up brings to the situation. They never needed to be there in the first place, they were not in immediate danger not being there, their property was not at risk if damage, it was solely their choice so why choose a non-defensive action, then claim they needed to shoot the other guy in self defense?
The police on their way isn’t going to stop your head getting caved in nor will retreating turning your back or not.
Seems like all the Monday morning wannabe prosecutors mob want to simply ignore what picking up a bat brought to this situation.
They came to him, not the other way around.
They came armed and pointed weapons at him ready to kill him.
They were arrested on the orange mans property.
Because a person with true fear of their lives is irrational and can do or say things that seem entirely contrary to their continued existence. It's why the military stress, just focus on your training, and you'll be fine, because when people don't they do completely unexpected things that can get them or members of their unit killed.
People express fear in different ways, going literally berserk is well known and has been used historically for shock effect. It almost certainly wasn't berserk through rage, but terror.
No, that behavior was not normal.... We already know he was mentally ill and had been diagnosed with and receiving treatment for "Intermittent Explosive Disorder" that manifested itself when he was not compliant with his medications. That's documented. So you don't need to come up with some kind of strange explanation. That's what it was. Occams Razor here.
No, that behavior was not normal.... We already know he was mentally ill and had been diagnosed with and receiving treatment for "Intermittent Explosive Disorder" that manifested itself when he was not compliant with his medications. That's documented. So you don't need to come up with some kind of strange explanation. That's what it was. Occams Razor here.
Doesn't make him an immediate threat.
What's his police record say?
It's not a strange explanation. There are a range of expressions of fear, there's no overall general expression. What you think the military doesn't need all the training to produce a consistent response to life threatening situations? Who knew. We can save millions in training costs
I think you make a mistake by focusing on the mattress. Clearly this was about threats of harm this guy had been making previously, which is why they were armed. It wasn't about forcing the mattress to be moved. It was about the way he reacted to the dispute (by threatening their lives and violent action) that necessitated their being armed.
If you're saying they should not have "confronted" him perhaps that is true. But that does not mean they had the intent required for murder. You have to separate what they did from the dispute over the mattress in order to judge it objectively...which is what the jury will be instructed to do.
The dispute over the mattress isn't the issue. Whether they were correct or he was correct over whether the mattress could be discarded in the alley, is not materially relevant, so the jury will be ORDERED to not consider that.
What they will be ordered to consider is whether the defendants in arming themselves, did so with the intent to unlawfully take the life of another person or whether they did so in the reasonable expectation of danger.
And that is a question that the jury is going to say "No" to, because there is no evidence of it and they will be required to make their decision based on what is in evidence, and not what is not in evidence.
If he had been making threats to them previously, before this incident, then the last thing they should have done is walk out there with guns in hand to confront him over a stupid mattress. They should have contacted whatever authorities that they needed to contact about orange shirt guy throwing a mattress outside a dumpster in an alley.
If someone has made threats to me in the past, why on earth would I go out and confront them over a trivial issue? If it bothered me that much, I would have someone else handle it since I know the person has made threats in the past, and I would relay that information to whatever authorities as the reason that I'm asking them to get involved.
I understand "Stand Your Ground", I'm definitely a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, I mock the left when they talk about certain firearms because they don't know jack squat about firearms, but I will not sit here and excuse people who shoot someone over a damn mattress in an alleyway simply because they didn't want it there. That's what this boils down to. They didn't want it there, they went out to confront the guy. He made threats to them in the past, so they armed themselves. The better solution with that information is: Don't fricken go out there and confront him, then. A mattress is not a life or death matter. They did not need to go out there and approach him about it, especially knowing he has threatened them in the past. There are other channels to use that would have kept them out of the trouble they now find themselves in.
Taking all of that in, and adding that orange shirt guy told them to "put the gun up" and go inside, they were not threatened. They had plenty of opportunities to walk out of that situation. Starting from: Don't even start the situation, but once in it, they had plenty of time to walk away from it. They chose not to, they chose to tell him that they were going to shoot him. Over a mattress. A fricken dirty, used up, disgusting mattress.
Any news concerning the legal status of this matter?
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