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Old 09-21-2018, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
2,633 posts, read 4,391,959 times
Reputation: 4213

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
Very interesting snipping going on there. For the purposes of this discussion it might be beneficial to see the entire quote.


"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Okay, Pogue, if you want to play that game-the whole quote which you (helpfully) added. You tell ME what the President said here? In the construction “They’re rapists”, who are “They”?

I was trying to give the President room here for ambiguity-because I don’t think he could possibly have meant every Mexican is a rapist-but what I believe he said was an accusation that many of the people Mexico ‘sends’ (only two categories appear to matter here, illegal aliens and legal immigrants) are rapists. I also think the *reason* he did it was to stir up anti-immigration feeling.

What do *you* think he meant by what he said? Careful-there is an actual recording we can reference here.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:29 AM
 
Location: So Cal
38,750 posts, read 37,911,931 times
Reputation: 39566
I think it's because personal ethics aren't where they should be. I personally pride myself on trying to examine all sides of an issue before making a judgment. People are so polarized now that anything that has a shred of potential to feed their confirmation biases are leaped on.

So many people don't give the benefit of the doubt, so many just leap at anything that supports their views and makes the other side look bad.

It's pathetic to me.

I can't stand trump, yet I've had to defend him on so many occasions it's sort of bizarre to me. Things people take out of context or simply fabricate stuff just to add to the perceived popular consensus that trump is evil and must die, that seems to be literally the views of the far left.

I'm not a right guy, I'm a middle slightly left type if we want to pigeonhole people here and I'm saying this. I say this because I feel that intellectually honesty is a value that I hold dear. I wished more people did.

I would say the same about Obama, which I'm not a fan of at all. I think he's a failed president, but I'd defend him on the principle that you don't sack a person with wrong facts just because you feel like adding to the collective Kool aide for the Obama haters.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:36 AM
 
Location: San Diego
3,925 posts, read 952,436 times
Reputation: 2784
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
The film however lied about Trump calling all Mexican immigrants rapists. The guy who made the film, a professor at Michigan State University, lied during the panel discussion repeating the claim. One of the DACA recipients in the film repeated the lie. Audience members during the Q and A were also repeating the lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by what'd i miss View Post
I remember him saying" Mexico doesn't send us their finest...they re all rapists and criminals."
Well, speak of the Devil and look who shows up.

Trump did not say what silly little "whatd i miss" claims to remember. Little wim is lying just as the people you mentioned, are. And for the same purpose.

Trump said, "When Mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you, they're not sending you. They're sending people who have lots of problems. And they're bringing those problems with us.
"They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some I assume are good people."

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZNBDBRHdwc

He was pointing out the different characteristics of various people who walk across the border illegally.

(1) Some bring drugs.
(2) Some bring general forms of crimes.
(3) Some are rapists.
(4) Some are good people, who do none of these things (aside from breaking our laws to crash the border).

Now, who here thought that Trump meant that every individual who steps over the border illegally, would do all three of those crimes? Every individual would commit all three before he was done, without exception?

People like silly little wim want you to believe exactly that, though it is obviously not true. They are desperate to twist anything President Trump says into something that he didn't say, as long as it sounds bad. And the media has plenty of people like silly little wim, eager to spread the lie far and wide.

They don't mind changing the word "some" to "all" as silly little wim deliberately does here. Nor do they mind carefully leaving out the statement "...and some I assume are good people". Hey, if it will make Trump look bad, any lie is acceptable to people like silly little wim. It's far more important to convince people Trump is awful, than to tell the truth about him.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:17 AM
 
5,038 posts, read 1,525,865 times
Reputation: 4906
Quote:
Originally Posted by what'd i miss View Post
I remember him saying" Mexico doesn't send us their finest...they re all rapists and criminals."
Oh and also he s always saying that "democrats want open borders" ...which is funny because his top econ guy Cohn told Trump open borders are important to big business .

Trump is lyin up a storm to hold onto 29 percent when if he would just "go with the experts" he d hit upwards of 70 80 percent popularity.
But no, he listens to Hope Hicks tell him the press has oppositional defiance disorder and is out to get him...and hangs onto " Hillary is much worse...lock her up" two years and running.

What he does daily is shoot himSELF in the foot.
Hmm, how could you "remember" something that he did not say?

So, since he didn't say it, doesn't that make your post above a lie?

Democrats do want open borders. Their ability to win elections relies on illegals voting. To prevent anyone from ever finding out how many illegals are voting, blue states refused to allow an audit of their voting rolls.

To prevent anyone from preventing illegals from voting, blue states also refuse to implement identification requirements for voting.

In short, Open Borders, to allow as many illegals into the country to vote Democrat, is the strategy of the DNC.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
6,797 posts, read 2,535,909 times
Reputation: 12723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
Very interesting snipping going on there. For the purposes of this discussion it might be beneficial to see the entire quote.


"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
Okay, Pogue, if you want to play that game-the whole quote which you (helpfully) added. You tell ME what the President said here? In the construction “They’re rapists”, who are “They”?

I was trying to give the President room here for ambiguity-because I don’t think he could possibly have meant every Mexican is a rapist-but what I believe he said was an accusation that many of the people Mexico ‘sends’ (only two categories appear to matter here, illegal aliens and legal immigrants) are rapists. I also think the *reason* he did it was to stir up anti-immigration feeling.

What do *you* think he meant by what he said? Careful-there is an actual recording we can reference here.
Certainly not the ones who are good people, to be sure. And what he meant to say is what he said, not your negative spin on and selective snippets of what he said.


I mean he COULD have meant every single one of them is a drug dealer, every single one is a criminal of some sort and every single one is also a rapist, and also that some of them are good people. So we're getting some good drug dealing, criminal rapists. Headline tomorrow should be "Trump says drug dealers, criminals and rapists are good people." After all his words could be "fairly" interpreted that way.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
6,406 posts, read 2,257,669 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
In the Democrats' defense, there are many decent immigrants. Other than being here illegally, there are immigrants that are otherwise decent people.


Irrelevant.


Lots of people want a better life.

I want a better life.

Doesn't give me the right to violate another country's immigration laws to achieve it.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Marquette, Mich
1,022 posts, read 383,584 times
Reputation: 2322
You wanna use the full quote? Fine. Let's do it.


First: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

I copied this from above, so I hope we can agree it's mostly accurate. There should, in my opinion, be ellipses on the "They're not sending you...they're not sending you..." But that doesn't really impact much, unless you believe he was saying, literally, YOU are not who they are sending.



So, he says Mexico doesn't send their best. So, who do they send? Ahhh, people with problems, lots of problems that they bring with them. Trump goes on to say that those Mexico sends are bringing drugs and crime, and they are rapists. Although, some may possibly be good people.



Mexico sends people who bring drugs & crime, and they are rapists. Some could be good people.


THAT is what he said. Now, you can argue alllllll you want about what he MEANT. But that is what those words are. And those are terrible words for a man running to be president of our country to say. They are terrible words for anyone to say. But in his position, those words should not have been uttered.


Why did he say them, do you think? Was it to lead a nuanced discussion about immigration in the US? Or was it to appeal to 'Muricans? He was trying to hype a crowd, wasn't he? What do you think would have hyped his crowd more?



Please, we all know what this was. You can deny it, but your willful ignorance doesn't shield you. It only makes the light shine brighter on you.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:14 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8348
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTransplant View Post
Okay, Pogue, if you want to play that game-the whole quote which you (helpfully) added. You tell ME what the President said here? In the construction “They’re rapists”, who are “They”?

I was trying to give the President room here for ambiguity-because I don’t think he could possibly have meant every Mexican is a rapist-but what I believe he said was an accusation that many of the people Mexico ‘sends’ (only two categories appear to matter here, illegal aliens and legal immigrants) are rapists. I also think the *reason* he did it was to stir up anti-immigration feeling.

What do *you* think he meant by what he said? Careful-there is an actual recording we can reference here.

Wrong! As I said in a prior post Mexico doesn't "send" legal immigrants. They come on their own with papers in hand. They do however, encourage/send their undesirables here. Since Trump opposes illegal immigration not legal immigration there is no evidence that he was including legal immigrants from Mexico in his words. Only a fool or someone with a bias to demonize him would spin it to include legal immigrants from Mexico.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:18 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Well, speak of the Devil and look who shows up.

Trump did not say what silly little "whatd i miss" claims to remember. Little wim is lying just as the people you mentioned, are. And for the same purpose.

Trump said, "When Mexico sends their people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you, they're not sending you. They're sending people who have lots of problems. And they're bringing those problems with us.
"They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some I assume are good people."

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZNBDBRHdwc

He was pointing out the different characteristics of various people who walk across the border illegally.

(1) Some bring drugs.
(2) Some bring general forms of crimes.
(3) Some are rapists.
(4) Some are good people, who do none of these things (aside from breaking our laws to crash the border).

Now, who here thought that Trump meant that every individual who steps over the border illegally, would do all three of those crimes? Every individual would commit all three before he was done, without exception?

People like silly little wim want you to believe exactly that, though it is obviously not true. They are desperate to twist anything President Trump says into something that he didn't say, as long as it sounds bad. And the media has plenty of people like silly little wim, eager to spread the lie far and wide.

They don't mind changing the word "some" to "all" as silly little wim deliberately does here. Nor do they mind carefully leaving out the statement "...and some I assume are good people". Hey, if it will make Trump look bad, any lie is acceptable to people like silly little wim. It's far more important to convince people Trump is awful, than to tell the truth about him.

Thank you! Well said.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:33 PM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8348
Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post
It's about context, Pogue. Hell, your bolded quote even starts out with


So, context would state that the following statements are about the types of people Mexico is sending:

- Mexican people with lots of problems with them
- Mexican people bringing drugs
- Mexican people bringing crime
- Mexican people that commit rape
- Oh, and last but not least, some that are good people.

Imagine if someone here said:

- City-Data posters are real idiots.
- CD posters don't back up anything with facts
- CD posters are ill-informed
- CD posters are probably all fat people stuffing their mouths with cookies while commenting on life
- Well, maybe some aren't so bad

I think the valid conclusion would be that CD posters are mostly less-than-savory people, but maybe just a few aren't so bad.

That's pretty much what Trump said. I have no idea how you can dissect his statement and NOT conclude that he is saying that Mexicans are simply bringing bad things (drugs and crime) and bad behavior (rape) into the country.

There really isn't any reading between the lines here.

There is unless you are biased towards him and lack the common sense that Trump has never said he has had a problem with legal immigrants from Mexico. Why would he when those that come legally aren't the problem as they are vetted! He ran on a platform opposing "illegal" immigration for God's sake!
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