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Old 09-23-2018, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
420 posts, read 144,010 times
Reputation: 381

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
So then when in Miami, speak Spanish. When in northern Maine, speak French. When in San Francisco's Chinatown, speak Chinese. No problem for you, right? These places, as well as Puerto Rico, Koreatown in NYC, etc., are parts of the United States. There are little communities sprinkled all over where the people speak something other than English. I lived in a town in Connecticut where there was a large Portuguese-speaking community, and yes, there were signs in Portuguese. Who cares? People can speak whatever language they want.

English is not the official language of the USA, and these other languages aren't going anywhere.

Do you travel to other countries? Are you fluent in every language of every country you visit? If not, do you feel that you are being disrespectful for stepping foot in a country without knowing the language?
Before I went to Rome, I learned Italian. I did the same thing when traveling to France. It is a courtesy to try and learn at least a little of the language before visiting. Outside of the USA, other countries take pride in their local dialect and will often show a bit of disdain for those who do not at least try to learn their language (I am looking at you Parisians.)

I speak five languages. I am American born and raised in a predominately German-heritage area. Growing up, my great-grandparents and grandparents often spoke German in the home. However, they learned to speak English when they came to the United States.

Having traveled the world, I have seen MANY multi-lingual signs in the native language and in English. The Brits were out conquering the world long before The Americans showed up and they taught their colonies English. Most of the international companies require English to do trade. We just happened to be a colony, so we lucked out. I am not sure Proto-Algic would have fared well as our national language on the international stage.

I have no problem with multi-lingual prompts and signs in languages I do not speak (yet.) I often speak French to the Spanish/English ATMs when I get prompted just to see if they will play along. I think it's good for us as a species to try to understand each other.

As far as Spanish speakers in the USA, I would encourage them to learn English. I would also encourage English speakers to step outside their comfort shell and learn a little Spanish. As far as mono-language discrimination, languages are a skill. If you do not have the skills for the job, why would someone hire you?
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:35 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8349
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
100 years ago, there used to be large communities of Italian and German speakers in the U.S. which no longer exist. Their descendants all speak English now.

Foreign languages diminish in use when immigration from countries that speak those languages declines. The same will happen with Spanish.

It won't unless we stop illegal immigration from south of our border and stop allowing so many from south of our border to come under our annual quota system. We allow so many of them to come here under family reunifications also. You actually think that if the Hispanic population in our country outnumbers all other ethnic groups in the future that Spanish won't be the dominant language? Don't be a fool. They are colonizing not assimilating.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:40 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8349
Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlEsc View Post
Before I went to Rome, I learned Italian. I did the same thing when traveling to France. It is a courtesy to try and learn at least a little of the language before visiting. Outside of the USA, other countries take pride in their local dialect and will often show a bit of disdain for those who do not at least try to learn their language (I am looking at you Parisians.)

I speak five languages. I am American born and raised in a predominately German-heritage area. Growing up, my great-grandparents and grandparents often spoke German in the home. However, they learned to speak English when they came to the United States.

Having traveled the world, I have seen MANY multi-lingual signs in the native language and in English. The Brits were out conquering the world long before The Americans showed up and they taught their colonies English. Most of the international companies require English to do trade. We just happened to be a colony, so we lucked out. I am not sure Proto-Algic would have fared well as our national language on the international stage.

I have no problem with multi-lingual prompts and signs in languages I do not speak (yet.) I often speak French to the Spanish/English ATMs when I get prompted just to see if they will play along. I think it's good for us as a species to try to understand each other.

As far as Spanish speakers in the USA, I would encourage them to learn English. I would also encourage English speakers to step outside their comfort shell and learn a little Spanish. As far as mono-language discrimination, languages are a skill. If you do not have the skills for the job, why would someone hire you?

Since most Hispanic-Americans are bi-lingual we already have the common language of English to communicate in so why should Americans have to learn Spanish? Native English speaking Americans should not be discriminated against in hiring practices if they don't speak Spanish it's not an actual skill for the job it's to accommodate Spanish speakers who are too lazy to learn English or that are here illegally. Is that a reason to discriminate against non-Spanish speaking Americans? I don't think so!
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
16,154 posts, read 7,089,742 times
Reputation: 9160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Since most Hispanic-Americans are bi-lingual we already have the common language of English to communicate in so why should Americans have to learn Spanish? Native English speaking Americans should not be discriminated against in hiring practices if they don't speak Spanish it's not an actual skill for the job it's to accommodate Spanish speakers who are too lazy to learn English or that are here illegally. Is that a reason to discriminate against non-Spanish speaking Americans? I don't think so!
Shrug. If your bank hires a Spanish translator to help them out in their business, and for some peculiar reason insists that a Spanish translator needs to speak Spanish, I guess youíll just have to find another bank. Donít let the door slam on you on your way out.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,480 posts, read 1,419,774 times
Reputation: 3073
Default Meanwhile, back in the real World

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Well no American should have to learn a foreign language to communicate with people living in America and to be employed. I stand by what I meant and not your strawman version.
In the US? There are a fair number of people living in the US who never learned much English - ranging from Displaced People from WWII to people who just arrived from non-English speaking countries, & without studying English beforehand.


English, of course, was a foreign language in North America early on, as were Dutch, French, Portuguese & Spanish, & all the other languages other than the Native People's.


If you're a US citizen going into intelligence, or law enforcement, or Special Forces (or similar) or diplomacy - fluency in a foreign language is a plus, along with cultural literacy. We have interests across the World, that's one reason we have a big military & intel agencies to match.


We need to know what's going on in other countries, & again, to get reliable information, we need to be able to understand the languages & cultures ourselves, rather than rely on official sources (remember the Shah of Iran? Remember the Arab Spring?)


It's much easier to relate to people in their language & culture - & that's the point of gathering intelligence, diplomacy, business - we need open communications, & a feel for what we're being told.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:30 AM
 
31,471 posts, read 14,559,147 times
Reputation: 8349
Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
In the US? There are a fair number of people living in the US who never learned much English - ranging from Displaced People from WWII to people who just arrived from non-English speaking countries, & without studying English beforehand.


English, of course, was a foreign language in North America early on, as were Dutch, French, Portuguese & Spanish, & all the other languages other than the Native People's.


If you're a US citizen going into intelligence, or law enforcement, or Special Forces (or similar) or diplomacy - fluency in a foreign language is a plus, along with cultural literacy. We have interests across the World, that's one reason we have a big military & intel agencies to match.


We need to know what's going on in other countries, & again, to get reliable information, we need to be able to understand the languages & cultures ourselves, rather than rely on official sources (remember the Shah of Iran? Remember the Arab Spring?)


It's much easier to relate to people in their language & culture - & that's the point of gathering intelligence, diplomacy, business - we need open communications, & a feel for what we're being told.

There were no native people when this continent was discovered. All languages were foreign then. The only foreign language that is being required for most public sector jobs is Spanish even though there are other foreign languages spoken in our country. I already explained why that is and it's ridiculous.


We aren't having a cold war or an active one with Spanish speaking countries so your points are moot. Re-read what this topic is about.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,080 posts, read 3,060,892 times
Reputation: 8593
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Miami is in the US. Not in Cuba.

Visiting is one thing but living in the US or any other country is another matter entirely
Correct, but if you go to Miami, you're going to hear mostly Spanish being spoken. If you go to Chinatown, you're going to hear Chinese. And so on. English is spoken in most of the USA, but there are pockets where it is not the predominant language. Then there are even more pockets where it is spoken equally as often as another language, usually Spanish (but in some areas, that other language is French).

When I've gone to businesses (in the USA and abroad) where the employees speak something other than English, it's not a problem for me 99% of the time. Only one time in Chinatown in San Francisco, I had to ask for someone who spoke English because my daughter has an allergy and I needed to find out about the ingredients in something she wanted to try. Luckily I asked, because it contained shellfish, which she cannot have. If nobody there spoke English, though, I just would not have purchased it. It's really not that big of a deal.

I guess my question is, why do you find it offensive? You can simply choose not to patronize the businesses who you think are going overboard in their translations for those who don't speak English or those who don't translate for those who only speak English. Why do you have the desire to micromanage the languages that other people speak, assuming they are not your employee? It has nothing to do with you.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,080 posts, read 3,060,892 times
Reputation: 8593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
There were no native people when this continent was discovered. All languages were foreign then. The only foreign language that is being required for most public sector jobs is Spanish even though there are other foreign languages spoken in our country. I already explained why that is and it's ridiculous.


We aren't having a cold war or an active one with Spanish speaking countries so your points are moot. Re-read what this topic is about.
When this continent was discovered by whom? Where do you think the Native Americans came from? And you do know that the first European explorers to stake claims in what is now the USA didn't speak English... right?
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
420 posts, read 144,010 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Since most Hispanic-Americans are bi-lingual we already have the common language of English to communicate in so why should Americans have to learn Spanish? Native English speaking Americans should not be discriminated against in hiring practices if they don't speak Spanish it's not an actual skill for the job it's to accommodate Spanish speakers who are too lazy to learn English or that are here illegally. Is that a reason to discriminate against non-Spanish speaking Americans? I don't think so!
I would hate to find out that my brain surgeon was allowed to do surgery on me just because he felt discriminated against because he was too lazy to go to med school.

If your job is to interact with someone who speaks a foreign language, then speaking that language is a necessary job skill. I used to live in a 40% Hispanic community. I spoke Spanish almost every day as part of my job. If I wanted to sell to non-English speakers, I needed to be able to communicate with them. If your future employer wants his products sold to non-English speakers, he doesn't expect the non-English speakers to learn English so they can buy his products.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:57 AM
 
11,654 posts, read 3,242,043 times
Reputation: 3567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Not only that but this idiotic claim that one needs to learn a foreign language in this country because of some so-called globalism is ridiculous. Most Americans don't hold jobs where they have to deal with foreign countries and even at that English is global language of business.


This demonizing of Americans who have no need to learn a foreign language claiming that it is out of laziness is ridiculous also. How is it lazy to want to learn something more useful to the career you have chosen other than a foreign language you aren't likely to use on your job or out in public?
Yeah rather than all Americans needing to learn foreign languages to communicate and work in American. How about all non-English speakers need to learn English to communicate, live and work in America? If you don't speak English you are a foreigner who shouldn't be living, going to public school and working here, and need to leave on your own or by a boot to your butt.
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