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Old 09-23-2018, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,457 posts, read 1,769,221 times
Reputation: 2074

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
I will shop as I wish to, as do hundreds of millions, even as our choices destroy your Commune style wishes.

Box Marts, btw, have every right to exist, as that right is granted by simply licensing requirements, as should be the case.

When I shop online or at an actual Wal Mart, I am indifferent to the changing marketplace. What matters is do they have all I want at terrific prices-and they always do.

On Small Business Saturday, btw, I make sure to purchase from BOTH Wal Mart and Amazon, btw.

That is MY choice.

Your posts reek of wishing to dictate the choices of all. That is the polar opposite of what this free nation is all about. Fortunately, we can all dismiss your stupid choices.
You can shop in real life or online, retail and online retail monopolies have no means of existing outside or private property claims. Being as these claims are unfounded in natural law, these big retail markets will cease their domination over the free people.

You can do what you want, but it will be difficult shopping at monopolies that no longer exist.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:37 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 1,299,185 times
Reputation: 2987
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Nah. Early adopters jump on anything as soon as it's available. It doesn't have to enhance a thing, they just need to be the first among their group to have it.

If people want to spend their money that way I really don't get why you have an issue with it. It makes them feel good and enhances their life. Millions do not think like you.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:34 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 1,299,185 times
Reputation: 2987
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
The bolded rings hollow when you support corporatism, one of the largest reasons being a politician is so profitable. Lobbying is the most popular career choice for retiring politicians and many end up on corporate boards. Politicians can also personally benefit from PAC money. Your "socialist" and "punish success" talking points are just a diversion. You either don't believe in or don't stand by your stated principles.
Lets just back up one more time because clearly you are not getting what I am saying. I am a libertarian and support a hands off approach to government in regards to business and virtually everything else.

However if politicians were no longer able to raise money the two party system would tumble and Libertarians and other 3rd parties would become much stronger. I don't like that the two parties put so many obstacles in the way for other political parties.

I do also believe that benefits corporations get from the current arrangement is of much smaller impact than the left does. If it goes away it will not change much except opening up the political process to more parties which is of upmost importance to me.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...ck-market.aspx

Just look at the 5 largest companies. All in tech and 4 did not even exist 20 years ago. Obviously just handing over big donations does not keep the top companies on top. It all comes down to running your business well or you end up like Sears or Montgomery Wards or countless other big corporations that have come and gone.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:51 AM
 
6,780 posts, read 6,867,827 times
Reputation: 6955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Lets just back up one more time because clearly you are not getting what I am saying. I am a libertarian and support a hands off approach to government in regards to business and virtually everything else.

However if politicians were no longer able to raise money the two party system would tumble and Libertarians and other 3rd parties would become much stronger. I don't like that the two parties put so many obstacles in the way for other political parties.

I do also believe that benefits corporations get from the current arrangement is of much smaller impact than the left does. If it goes away it will not change much except opening up the political process to more parties which is of upmost importance to me.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/...ck-market.aspx

Just look at the 5 largest companies. All in tech and 4 did not even exist 20 years ago. Obviously just handing over big donations does not keep the top companies on top. It all comes down to running your business well or you end up like Sears or Montgomery Wards or countless other big corporations that have come and gone.
I'd be very happy to see the political process open up to more parties but that's not going to happen as long as people remain blindly loyal. The two parties benefit too much from the current system to allow it to happen. I don't agree that the benefit of influence over policy is anything but tremendous. It's more than just which companies are on top. There's an entire culture of anti free market principles that work to concentrate power and wealth. I began my adult working life in corporate world. At one point I was heavily involved in the opening of a new city and worked directly with one of the 4 top execs. For various reasons, I was viewed as someone who "fit" with top management even though I was young, and I handled all the HR so was privy to and trusted with much more information than most people.

Seeing this world first hand was eye opening. As a principled person it wasn't something I wanted to be a part of. I'm far from a bleeding heart but I believe in generally honest interactions and a sense of fair play. I now work as a self employed professional and my livliehood depends on the overall economy. I feel great concern when the value of so much is not determined by a free market but by those with the power and influence. It's one thing to use various to rise up and beat the competition but it's another to essentially "cheat" and conspire to keep others down. We, as a society and economy all do better when a real free market allows the benefits to be more widespread and deserved.

Last edited by detshen; 09-24-2018 at 03:38 AM..
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Old 09-24-2018, 06:15 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,677 posts, read 5,657,283 times
Reputation: 7541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Not all private sector activities are good, not all government is bad. When someone clearly violates the law the government has to step in and deal with them.



What's especially fascinating is to hear people say that the blame game never works while chasing the many reasons for blame that they've always seen in their tails.


I am not blaming successful companies you are. I don't see that we have a problem so I am not playing the blame game.



You just avoided my question twice. Once again, what is your solution for companies like Amazon?
I don't have a "solution" other than BeerGeek's below....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Actually that's an easy answer. You don't buy from Amazon, and you don't shop at Whole Foods.
All I'm saying is that conservatives who fall all over themselves in the race to praise big "successful" business are as misguided and naive as any young starry-eyed leftist parading in support of the latest SJW cause of the week.

If only due to lack of oversight, concentrated massive wealth and power in private hands is potentially even more evil than is it in government. Those supporting it are supporting a future of serfdom and suppression.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Barrington
42,010 posts, read 31,800,634 times
Reputation: 14107
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Well then I guess Donald Trump is a disgruntled liberal fanatic, because he complains about Amazon probably more than anyone else.
Best I can tell Bezos personally leans Liberarian.

If he was a Trump supporter, Trump would love him.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
4,151 posts, read 985,016 times
Reputation: 2896
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
While the US is considered mostly free by most rankings, it tends to rank in the low top 20 overall and varies by individual rankings. Canada and many Europeon countries rank higher. The government is heavilly involved in market manipulation through various policies and subsidizes many goods and services. Those with enough money to gain access to government are able to influence policy and manipulate the market in their favor, that is antithetical to a free market.
"When politicians are allowed to control the buying and selling, the first things bought and sold are politicians."

Always true. And always ignored by the idealists who think government can help the market be "fair".
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:49 AM
 
5,758 posts, read 1,299,185 times
Reputation: 2987
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
I'd be very happy to see the political process open up to more parties but that's not going to happen as long as people remain blindly loyal. The two parties benefit too much from the current system to allow it to happen. I don't agree that the benefit of influence over policy is anything but tremendous. It's more than just which companies are on top. There's an entire culture of anti free market principles that work to concentrate power and wealth. I began my adult working life in corporate world. At one point I was heavily involved in the opening of a new city and worked directly with one of the 4 top execs. For various reasons, I was viewed as someone who "fit" with top management even though I was young, and I handled all the HR so was privy to and trusted with much more information than most people.

Seeing this world first hand was eye opening. As a principled person it wasn't something I wanted to be a part of. I'm far from a bleeding heart but I believe in generally honest interactions and a sense of fair play. I now work as a self employed professional and my livliehood depends on the overall economy. I feel great concern when the value of so much is not determined by a free market but by those with the power and influence. It's one thing to use various to rise up and beat the competition but it's another to essentially "cheat" and conspire to keep others down. We, as a society and economy all do better when a real free market allows the benefits to be more widespread and deserved.



I agree totally with your first statement. But I disagree that business has some loyalty to the free market. Their only loyalty is to those who invest in their stock and survival. You do whatever it takes hopefully short of blatantly breaking the law to achieve it. Because if you don't your competition will. And I have worked with small owner operated businesses up to large corporations. The ones who do well do whatever it takes. Bezos did not make it by hoping for the best. He figured out how things work and used that knowledge to his and Amazon's advantage. I see no issue with that.



You keep throwing around the word free market. Capitalism would be more appropriate. Since as long as we have the government getting involved in capitalism there is not any free market and never has been. A real free market goes where it goes. It might bring more widespread benefits or perhaps less. The only way to force a level playing field is government intervention even more than we have now. And that is not a free market.
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:59 AM
 
7,023 posts, read 6,657,986 times
Reputation: 5307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The problem doesn’t solely revolve around subsides (though they too are a problem). They also come (as in Amazon’s case) from financial backing that allowed them to ignore the free market system and sell at a loss, something that small businesses weren’t able to do. With this new centralization of wealth Amazon is able to function AS the market for many businesses giving them control over the distribution of wealth in the country.

My solutions may be more radical than you’d like, but whatever you or I believe, we have to operate under the understanding that Amazon and companies like them don’t form because of competition or the free markets, but inspite of them.
They get a free pass. Bezos used to work for a hedge fund. They burn through cash raised by issuing shares or debt. That would drive down the stock price of competitors if they did the same. In the current climate, Amazon states their intent to enter a market and the stock prices of competitors dive, which hamstrings their effort to compete.
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Old 09-24-2018, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
6,457 posts, read 1,769,221 times
Reputation: 2074
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Best I can tell Bezos personally leans Liberarian.

If he was a Trump supporter, Trump would love him.
Bezos loves the military industrial complex.

I don’t like right wing libertarians, but they’re not that evil.
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